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fineleg

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http://sightscreen.rediffiland.com/scripts/xanadu_diary_view.php?postId=1163998349

Trend-spotting

Actually, it is more of a one-off than a trend -- but I was pleasantly intrigued by this news about Sarwan, coming out of the Windies-Pak series now on.

Tony Cozier's comment on the dropping of Sarwan has two paragraphs I found pertinent to Indian cricket as well. Here they are, in reverse order:

It marked an unmistakable change in a policy that readily accommodated deceptively talented underachievers in the West Indies team in recent times. The names Carl Hooper and Marlon Samuels spring readily to mind. Lara's message was loud, clear and long overdue. It would have registered large, not only with Sarwan but with everyone vying for selection.
It was that, from now on, no one is guaranteed a place, not even the vice-captain, not even a quality batsman with 64 Tests and over 4,000 runs to his name recently ranked No 2 at ODI level. Sarwan's character will be sternly tested by this development.

And then the comment by Lara himself:

"It's a time for Sarwan to reflect and come back strong," Lara told the world at the toss. "He is one of our main players. We know that. There's no doubt about it. It's an opportunity for him to spend some time off the field and see what it's like and come out back into the middle maybe more energetic and more purposeful."
It is a refreshing change; it is something we could learn from. Not that we ever will -- there are too many vested interests tied into the stars, to contemplate even a temporary benching.

John Wright had once said as much; he asked the then powers-that-be for permission to bench a rising star who was getting a bit uppity, and was told he couldn't do it, not if he valued his job.

As cricket fans, we natter on all the time about performance, results or the lack thereof. And constantly come up with "Sachin should be dropped", 'Sehwag should be axed' and such.

Apologies for the language, but I never heard such bull. Try dropping a star, any star, and see what happens: his fans will go up in arms, morchas will be taken out, effigies burnt, all hell will break loose...

Those who don't take to the streets will take to the net, busily concocting conspiracy theories: he was dropped because he was in that camp and the other camp doesn't like that camp...

The day we as fans put results over individual fancies, the day we stop talking, pro or con, about some individual player, and empower selectors and the management to take tough decisions, is the day we will really turn the corner we have been staring at for years now.

AMEN TO THE LAST PARAGRAPH
« Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 07:33:12 PM by fineleg »
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fineleg

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2006, 12:32:08 AM »

http://sightscreen.rediffiland.com/scripts/xanadu_diary_view.php?postId=1163494849

Best practices

Before you ask, my silence on this owes to two factors: There is a tour coming up and since I will be doing it live, I need to clear the decks of many projects before that. Hence, little if any time to blog.

Plus, those who were plugged in to the Whois initiative on here should know that the ideas I had come up with cannot float without appropriate back end systems -- currently, am involved in getting them constructed, so I can tap into the energies of those of you who responded to my request.

Will see you, live -- live in ten over spells, that is -- on the main home page of Rediff, www.rediff.com, when the ODIs kick off.

Meanwhile, a snippet in passing: reader Ananth sent me a somewhat surprised mail just now. He had, apparently, written to Cricket Australia about the incident involving Ponting, Martyn and Sharad Pawar.

'They could have just ignored the letter', Anant points out. Instead, he got a response.

Dear Ananth,
Thank you for your email and feedback regarding the presentation of the ICC
Champion~s Trophy to the Australian team.

Cricket Australia CEO James Sutherland and Australian captain Ricky Ponting met
in Sydney yesterday ~ their first opportunity to catch up since the Australian team travelled back to Australia after the ICC Champion~s Trophy in India.

Ponting was surprised to learn of the reaction to the team~s celebration and advises that the players did not mean to cause any offence. They were very excited to have won the tournament, as the ICC Champion~s Trophy has been the
one event Australia has been striving, without success, to win for a number of years. He is most concerned that the strong excitement they were feeling did not inadvertently cause offence and is seeking to ring Mr Pawar personally to discuss and to apologise for any distress the end of match ceremony might have caused.

The Australian players believe that the BCCI organised an excellent tournament and they were most grateful for the hospitality they enjoyed in a country where cricket is enjoyed with such passion.


Kind Regards
Public Enquiries
Cricket Australia | 60 Jolimont Street | Jolimont VIC 3002 | Australia
Tel: +61 3 9653 9999 | Fax: +61 3 9653 9922
www.cricket.com.au

As I mailed Ananth, I am not surprised that he got a response: Cricket Australia has honed the art and craft of public relations to a T, and that at least in part explains why the Aussie team receives such red carpet welcomes wherever it tours.

What surprises me is that the Indian board, with this sort of example to learn from, remains so singularly unresponsive. Just for the heck of it, I sent an email to the BCCI the day I landed back in Bombay. Journalists don't go that route -- when you want information, you call. This was in a sense a test mail -- I sent off a request for information, wanting to see how it would be treated.

A month and a week later, I know the answer: it is treated with complete, total, deafening silence -- no one even bothered to acknowledge, even through one of those form letters mail programs automatically send out, the receipt of my letter.

So much for the 'responsive' BCCI we were promised when the new dispensation took charge.

On that note, out for the day and back to the drawing board... talk to you guys soon.

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kban1

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2006, 01:08:20 AM »

Everyone has their own gods or deities to worship, adore or thank.

For some it is Sourav Ganguly, for some it is Greg Chapell, for some SRT, for some VVS, for some RD, and for others it is Sharad Pawar, Rahul Dravid, and Greg Chapell rolled into one.

Which brings me to an old saying from a very old book --

"Let the one who has committed no sin cast the first stone"

also known as

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones at others.

 ;) ;)
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MockTurtle

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2006, 01:39:10 AM »

http://sightscreen.rediffiland.com/scripts/xanadu_diary_view.php?postId=1163998349

Trend-spotting

Actually, it is more of a one-off than a trend -- but I was pleasantly intrigued by this news about Sarwan, coming out of the Windies-Pak series now on.

Tony Cozier's comment on the dropping of Sarwan has two paragraphs I found pertinent to Indian cricket as well. Here they are, in reverse order:

It marked an unmistakable change in a policy that readily accommodated deceptively talented underachievers in the West Indies team in recent times. The names Carl Hooper and Marlon Samuels spring readily to mind. Lara's message was loud, clear and long overdue. It would have registered large, not only with Sarwan but with everyone vying for selection.
It was that, from now on, no one is guaranteed a place, not even the vice-captain, not even a quality batsman with 64 Tests and over 4,000 runs to his name recently ranked No 2 at ODI level. Sarwan's character will be sternly tested by this development.

And then the comment by Lara himself:

"It's a time for Sarwan to reflect and come back strong," Lara told the world at the toss. "He is one of our main players. We know that. There's no doubt about it. It's an opportunity for him to spend some time off the field and see what it's like and come out back into the middle maybe more energetic and more purposeful."
It is a refreshing change; it is something we could learn from. Not that we ever will -- there are too many vested interests tied into the stars, to contemplate even a temporary benching.

John Wright had once said as much; he asked the then powers-that-be for permission to bench a rising star who was getting a bit uppity, and was told he couldn't do it, not if he valued his job.

As cricket fans, we natter on all the time about performance, results or the lack thereof. And constantly come up with "Sachin should be dropped", 'Sehwag should be axed' and such.

Apologies for the language, but I never heard such bull. Try dropping a star, any star, and see what happens: his fans will go up in arms, morchas will be taken out, effigies burnt, all hell will break loose...

Those who don't take to the streets will take to the net, busily concocting conspiracy theories: he was dropped because he was in that camp and the other camp doesn't like that camp...

The day we as fans put results over individual fancies, the day we stop talking, pro or con, about some individual player, and empower selectors and the management to take tough decisions, is the day we will really turn the corner we have been staring at for years now.

AMEN TO THE LAST PARAGRAPH

aww, just what we need - another sermon from the mount but must say i can't wait to see when PremP will start practising what he preaches....maybe right after he returns from that dinner with the CEO?
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undercover

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2006, 02:45:11 AM »

Everyone has their own gods or deities to worship, adore or thank.

For some it is Sourav Ganguly, for some it is Greg Chapell, for some SRT, for some VVS, for some RD, and for others it is Sharad Pawar, Rahul Dravid, and Greg Chapell rolled into one.

Which brings me to an old saying from a very old book --

"Let the one who has committed no sin cast the first stone"

also known as

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones at others.

 ;) ;)

Also add Akash Chopra to that list  :P
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Libran

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2006, 02:50:37 AM »

Everyone has their own gods or deities to worship, adore or thank.

For some it is Sourav Ganguly, for some it is Greg Chapell, for some SRT, for some VVS, for some RD, and for others it is Sharad Pawar, Rahul Dravid, and Greg Chapell rolled into one.

Which brings me to an old saying from a very old book --

"Let the one who has committed no sin cast the first stone"

also known as

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones at others.

 ;) ;)

that has long changed to "People who live in glass houses do not undress with the lights on"......changing with the times ;)
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Libran

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2006, 02:52:36 AM »

http://sightscreen.rediffiland.com/scripts/xanadu_diary_view.php?postId=1163998349

Trend-spotting

Actually, it is more of a one-off than a trend -- but I was pleasantly intrigued by this news about Sarwan, coming out of the Windies-Pak series now on.

Tony Cozier's comment on the dropping of Sarwan has two paragraphs I found pertinent to Indian cricket as well. Here they are, in reverse order:

It marked an unmistakable change in a policy that readily accommodated deceptively talented underachievers in the West Indies team in recent times. The names Carl Hooper and Marlon Samuels spring readily to mind. Lara's message was loud, clear and long overdue. It would have registered large, not only with Sarwan but with everyone vying for selection.
It was that, from now on, no one is guaranteed a place, not even the vice-captain, not even a quality batsman with 64 Tests and over 4,000 runs to his name recently ranked No 2 at ODI level. Sarwan's character will be sternly tested by this development.

And then the comment by Lara himself:

"It's a time for Sarwan to reflect and come back strong," Lara told the world at the toss. "He is one of our main players. We know that. There's no doubt about it. It's an opportunity for him to spend some time off the field and see what it's like and come out back into the middle maybe more energetic and more purposeful."
It is a refreshing change; it is something we could learn from. Not that we ever will -- there are too many vested interests tied into the stars, to contemplate even a temporary benching.

John Wright had once said as much; he asked the then powers-that-be for permission to bench a rising star who was getting a bit uppity, and was told he couldn't do it, not if he valued his job.

As cricket fans, we natter on all the time about performance, results or the lack thereof. And constantly come up with "Sachin should be dropped", 'Sehwag should be axed' and such.

Apologies for the language, but I never heard such bull. Try dropping a star, any star, and see what happens: his fans will go up in arms, morchas will be taken out, effigies burnt, all hell will break loose...

Those who don't take to the streets will take to the net, busily concocting conspiracy theories: he was dropped because he was in that camp and the other camp doesn't like that camp...

The day we as fans put results over individual fancies, the day we stop talking, pro or con, about some individual player, and empower selectors and the management to take tough decisions, is the day we will really turn the corner we have been staring at for years now.

AMEN TO THE LAST PARAGRAPH

aww, just what we need - another sermon from the mount but must say i can't wait to see when PremP will start practising what he preaches....maybe right after he returns from that dinner with the CEO?

Prem is  [god]...he has no personal favorites...he believes, and more often proves,ofcourse with a lot of sermons and insights ....that all of them are useless, anyways :D
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2006, 02:54:44 AM »

despite the person writing the piece, you cant deny that what he says is true. what would happen if SRT was dropped. not pretty.
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kban1

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2006, 03:08:26 AM »

sharpening knives for SRT already ?  ;) ;)
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bouncer

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2006, 03:18:37 AM »


John Wright had once said as much; he asked the then powers-that-be for permission to bench a rising star who was getting a bit uppity, and was told he couldn't do it, not if he valued his job.



Typical Prem, innuendos! Why can't he come out and say what happened?

A journalist (I use the term loosely) more interested in cricket politics than cricket itself
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Cover Point

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2006, 03:19:39 AM »

Kbanji, glass houses to theek hai but what prem said isnt wrong. And the bummer is its true in India only. Yahan everyone is a players fan. No ullu ka patha is a teams fan. We want ganguly. We want Tendulkar. We want Kaif. No one wants whats good for the team.
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inoc

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2006, 03:20:29 AM »

sharpening knives for SRT already ?  ;) ;)

it is going to happen kban1. eventually what SG faced will be faced by the others too. it is our result oriented media and supporters. GC had unequivocal support six months ago and what has happenned now. he has the same team that he had when he started and not a voice to argue against it. it is a media circus and everybody will be slain by it, be it SG, SRT or RD. 
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fineleg

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2006, 03:28:58 AM »

despite the person writing the piece, you cant deny that what he says is true. what would happen if SRT was dropped. not pretty.

Mock and Kban -
Can you not take your colored glasses and read the article for what it is?

Applause DD. That is the point. What he says is true. But our esteemed DG takes one look at the author, and the logic flies out the window  ::)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 03:31:17 AM by fineleg »
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fineleg

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2006, 03:30:38 AM »

sharpening knives for SRT already ?  ;) ;)

it is going to happen kban1. eventually what SG faced will be faced by the others too. it is our result oriented media and supporters. GC had unequivocal support six months ago and what has happenned now. he has the same team that he had when he started and not a voice to argue against it. it is a media circus and everybody will be slain by it, be it SG, SRT or RD. 

Inoc,
Results orientation per se is not the mistake. They/We should be demanding for results, and nothing wrong with that.
Ofcourse everything needs to happen in a balance.
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inoc

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2006, 04:02:42 AM »

sharpening knives for SRT already ?  ;) ;)

it is going to happen kban1. eventually what SG faced will be faced by the others too. it is our result oriented media and supporters. GC had unequivocal support six months ago and what has happenned now. he has the same team that he had when he started and not a voice to argue against it. it is a media circus and everybody will be slain by it, be it SG, SRT or RD. 

Inoc,
Results orientation per se is not the mistake. They/We should be demanding for results, and nothing wrong with that.
Ofcourse everything needs to happen in a balance.

fineleg

go on demanding results. results are not manufactured they are produced. i hope you understand the difference.
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fineleg

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2006, 04:07:07 AM »

sharpening knives for SRT already ?  ;) ;)

it is going to happen kban1. eventually what SG faced will be faced by the others too. it is our result oriented media and supporters. GC had unequivocal support six months ago and what has happenned now. he has the same team that he had when he started and not a voice to argue against it. it is a media circus and everybody will be slain by it, be it SG, SRT or RD. 

Inoc,
Results orientation per se is not the mistake. They/We should be demanding for results, and nothing wrong with that.
Ofcourse everything needs to happen in a balance.

fineleg

go on demanding results. results are not manufactured they are produced. i hope you understand the difference.

inoc,
I do.
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inoc

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2006, 04:13:12 AM »

sharpening knives for SRT already ?  ;) ;)

it is going to happen kban1. eventually what SG faced will be faced by the others too. it is our result oriented media and supporters. GC had unequivocal support six months ago and what has happenned now. he has the same team that he had when he started and not a voice to argue against it. it is a media circus and everybody will be slain by it, be it SG, SRT or RD. 

Inoc,
Results orientation per se is not the mistake. They/We should be demanding for results, and nothing wrong with that.
Ofcourse everything needs to happen in a balance.

fineleg

go on demanding results. results are not manufactured they are produced. i hope you understand the difference.

inoc,
I do.

and that is essentially why the process has failed.
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fineleg

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2006, 04:28:21 AM »

sharpening knives for SRT already ?  ;) ;)

it is going to happen kban1. eventually what SG faced will be faced by the others too. it is our result oriented media and supporters. GC had unequivocal support six months ago and what has happenned now. he has the same team that he had when he started and not a voice to argue against it. it is a media circus and everybody will be slain by it, be it SG, SRT or RD. 

Inoc,
Results orientation per se is not the mistake. They/We should be demanding for results, and nothing wrong with that.
Ofcourse everything needs to happen in a balance.

fineleg

go on demanding results. results are not manufactured they are produced. i hope you understand the difference.

inoc,
I do.

and that is essentially why the process has failed.

When I said 'I do', I meant I understand the difference.
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MockTurtle

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2006, 07:18:53 AM »

despite the person writing the piece, you cant deny that what he says is true. what would happen if SRT was dropped. not pretty.

Mock and Kban -
Can you not take your colored glasses and read the article for what it is?

Applause DD. That is the point. What he says is true. But our esteemed DG takes one look at the author, and the logic flies out the window  ::)

where did i say that what he says isn't true? the entire humour is in who is preaching and what his claims are to the pulpit! it is like you making a grandiose post about how irrelevant runs we accumulate through mass-posting are and why we as DGians should not worry about them.  ::zzz::
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fineleg

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2006, 07:21:55 AM »

Ok, when/where was PP against a specific player being dropped, and defended a player to be in the team despite that being harmful for the team as a whole?
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MockTurtle

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2006, 07:28:05 AM »

Ok, when/where was PP against a specific player being dropped, and defended a player to be in the team despite that being harmful for the team as a whole?

i can't be bothered searching through Prem's posts but "harmful" is a very subjective term, ain't it?  i can turn around and ask you why he did not voice his thoughts when a certain player was dodged in and out of the team coz of a certain egomaniac's PERSONAL vendetta? huh?in that case, an individual over the team is perfectly fine, eh?

actually, Prem's favourite hobby is to spread wild rumours heard through his "sources" and then every now and then make an outcry and take a high moral ground. for someone who had no qualms spreading tabloid quality information through his "personal blog", he has no "MORAL" right to preach - rings hollow!




« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 07:59:32 AM by MockTurtle »
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2006, 08:08:58 AM »

Oh..now Prem!
So he is free from the mundane chores of fixing his house and dealing with the customs, great!
But this article of his, like the ones before is more about himself.......abt how he exemplifies a typical Indian fan and his job is well-calibrated to his agenda-driven motives.
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justforkix

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2006, 11:17:01 AM »

Ok, when/where was PP against a specific player being dropped, and defended a player to be in the team despite that being harmful for the team as a whole?

PP Chat, Sources, Green Wicketitis -> ring a bell  :D :D
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justforkix

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2006, 11:18:05 AM »

sharpening knives for SRT already ?  ;) ;)

Effigies order given. Getting ready double quick  :)
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jaat69

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2006, 12:31:13 PM »

http://sightscreen.rediffiland.com/scripts/xanadu_diary_view.php?postId=1163998349

Trend-spotting

Actually, it is more of a one-off than a trend -- but I was pleasantly intrigued by this news about Sarwan, coming out of the Windies-Pak series now on.

Tony Cozier's comment on the dropping of Sarwan has two paragraphs I found pertinent to Indian cricket as well. Here they are, in reverse order:

It marked an unmistakable change in a policy that readily accommodated deceptively talented underachievers in the West Indies team in recent times. The names Carl Hooper and Marlon Samuels spring readily to mind. Lara's message was loud, clear and long overdue. It would have registered large, not only with Sarwan but with everyone vying for selection.
It was that, from now on, no one is guaranteed a place, not even the vice-captain, not even a quality batsman with 64 Tests and over 4,000 runs to his name recently ranked No 2 at ODI level. Sarwan's character will be sternly tested by this development.

And then the comment by Lara himself:

"It's a time for Sarwan to reflect and come back strong," Lara told the world at the toss. "He is one of our main players. We know that. There's no doubt about it. It's an opportunity for him to spend some time off the field and see what it's like and come out back into the middle maybe more energetic and more purposeful."
It is a refreshing change; it is something we could learn from. Not that we ever will -- there are too many vested interests tied into the stars, to contemplate even a temporary benching.

John Wright had once said as much; he asked the then powers-that-be for permission to bench a rising star who was getting a bit uppity, and was told he couldn't do it, not if he valued his job.

As cricket fans, we natter on all the time about performance, results or the lack thereof. And constantly come up with "Sachin should be dropped", 'Sehwag should be axed' and such.

Apologies for the language, but I never heard such bull. Try dropping a star, any star, and see what happens: his fans will go up in arms, morchas will be taken out, effigies burnt, all hell will break loose...

Those who don't take to the streets will take to the net, busily concocting conspiracy theories: he was dropped because he was in that camp and the other camp doesn't like that camp...

The day we as fans put results over individual fancies, the day we stop talking, pro or con, about some individual player, and empower selectors and the management to take tough decisions, is the day we will really turn the corner we have been staring at for years now.


The best part of PP is, he remains in hiding when his personal favorites are taking a hiding! :D
Suddenly, he gets bzy with shifting, customs, Presidents of USA, dead-lines(as if we are the only guys with a lot of time in our hands)! ???
Look at the last bolded para, where he castes aspersions about his fellow-yellow-journalists!
He is lamenting the fact that others of his ilk have learnt the trick of the trade and now, he is not the only one to generate false rumours! :)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 12:58:17 PM by jaat69 »
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2006, 01:41:55 PM »

PP writes well though.
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MockTurtle

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2006, 02:01:39 PM »

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Cover Point

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2006, 03:42:13 PM »

The point PP made (and  I am repeating myself here) is true. So he lives in glass houses or whatever but he does not run the Indian team . neither he has a monoply on it. Neither does he have an obligation of being 100% fair ... and making sure that if he called out one player he needs to do the same for the other too.

The point though that we have idiotic fans who worship a player rather than a team. Who sharpen knives at the mere mention of dropping of their favorite player without worrying about the team. Who use other players failure to justify their own players failure. Who dont realize that failure is a failure is a beeping failure!

To me it is true. We get the team we deserve. We get the politicians we deserve. People are corrupt and we get corrupt politicians. People are star crazy and we get a lot of stars who dont perform.

Now let me see how many idiots will respond to this post by pulling down another INDIVIDUAL (most probably Chappel). If you have that urge dont bother. Since you would be proving my point.

Look at the team as a whole. Look at whats best for the team. Ganguly, SRT or chappel dont matter! or should I say SHOULD NOT matter.

I personally am a fan of any player who helps the team. Not any player whom I worship! So if Ganguly can keep scoring I will be his biggest fan. If he continues to score his zeroes... kick on the backside.

Same for all other players!
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toney

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2006, 10:46:59 PM »

I thought we were supposed to avoid ad hominem attacks and concentrate on the matter. At least, that was what some people were recommending as late as last week. What happened now?
He wrote a very general post on a very true matter. For eg, if any of you so much as suggest that SRT be rested/dropped for a couple of series, I will burn your effigies and make sure at least two MPs raise the issue in parliament. I will also sit on a hunger strike if he is so much as made to go down to the level of proving hmself at first class level. How dare a person with more than 15000 runs at the international level be made to play gully cricket!!

I definitely agree with Prem who has written about fans like me who don't care about the team while focussing on the individual.

....Which brings me to an old saying from a very old book --

"Let the one who has committed no sin cast the first stone"
...
You mean at Prem Panicker? I agree. If Prem is being a hypocrite here, let all those who have never been hypocrites on this DG be the first ones to cast a stone at him.
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fineleg

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2006, 11:00:59 PM »

I thought we were supposed to avoid ad hominem attacks and concentrate on the matter. At least, that was what some people were recommending as late as last week. What happened now?


....Which brings me to an old saying from a very old book --

"Let the one who has committed no sin cast the first stone"
...
You mean at Prem Panicker? I agree. If Prem is being a hypocrite here, let all those who have never been hypocrites on this DG be the first ones to cast a stone at him.

Yes, what happened? ;D
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kban1

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2006, 11:31:57 PM »

There is a difference between ad hominem attack and calling a person out for having lost the moral high ground for passing judgment on the issue of fan sentiments.

Look at my first post, no one disagreed with Prem's point -- the fact remains the preaching from the mountain top suits people who have established the credence for such.

As MT pointed out, Prem's sermonizing sounds similar to

fineleg "making a grandiose post about how irrelevant runs we accumulate through mass-posting are and why we as DGians should not worry about them"

Fineleg, no offense meant pal, but the analogy provided my MT is pretty apt, hence the repeat
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Libran

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2006, 03:27:08 AM »

despite the person writing the piece, you cant deny that what he says is true. what would happen if SRT was dropped. not pretty.

Mock and Kban -
Can you not take your colored glasses and read the article for what it is?

Applause DD. That is the point. What he says is true. But our esteemed DG takes one look at the author, and the logic flies out the window  ::)

Read the timing of the article and the context it was written...it does not take much to understand his innuendoes.....unless one is a ullu ka patta in the context of blinkers against one single player :D :D

And don't miss the smiley  :P
« Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 04:20:46 AM by ravi1010 »
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jaat69

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2006, 05:47:57 AM »

I thought we were supposed to avoid ad hominem attacks and concentrate on the matter. At least, that was what some people were recommending as late as last week. What happened now?
He wrote a very general post on a very true matter. For eg, if any of you so much as suggest that SRT be rested/dropped for a couple of series, I will burn your effigies and make sure at least two MPs raise the issue in parliament. I will also sit on a hunger strike if he is so much as made to go down to the level of proving hmself at first class level. How dare a person with more than 15000 runs at the international level be made to play gully cricket!!

I definitely agree with Prem who has written about fans like me who don't care about the team while focussing on the individual.

....Which brings me to an old saying from a very old book --

"Let the one who has committed no sin cast the first stone"
...
You mean at Prem Panicker? I agree. If Prem is being a hypocrite here, let all those who have never been hypocrites on this DG be the first ones to cast a stone at him.

Wow! that was some defense! sacrificing self before PP, that was an act of unadultrated hero-worship.
btw.....what is so wrong in worshipping a player as against worshipping an agenda -driven yellow-journalist? Where is he hiding when India is doing badly for the last 6 months? Or is he only a fair-weather friend?

On another note, if an idiot has a right to post some crap, other idiots too have a right to reply. The very mention of PP gets the goat of some people, really strange! And they talk of 'Team First', 'Praacess' and such other silly stuff. :D
You need SG(he is a doer) to make this team perform and not GC or PP(eloquent theorists).
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MockTurtle

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2006, 05:54:31 AM »

I thought we were supposed to avoid ad hominem attacks and concentrate on the matter. At least, that was what some people were recommending as late as last week. What happened now?
He wrote a very general post on a very true matter. For eg, if any of you so much as suggest that SRT be rested/dropped for a couple of series, I will burn your effigies and make sure at least two MPs raise the issue in parliament. I will also sit on a hunger strike if he is so much as made to go down to the level of proving hmself at first class level. How dare a person with more than 15000 runs at the international level be made to play gully cricket!!

I definitely agree with Prem who has written about fans like me who don't care about the team while focussing on the individual.

....Which brings me to an old saying from a very old book --

"Let the one who has committed no sin cast the first stone"
...
You mean at Prem Panicker? I agree. If Prem is being a hypocrite here, let all those who have never been hypocrites on this DG be the first ones to cast a stone at him.

Wow! that was some defense! sacrificing self before PP, that was an act of unadultrated hero-worship.
btw.....what is so wrong in worshipping a player as against worshipping an agenda -driven yellow-journalist? Where is he hiding when India is doing badly for the last 6 months? Or is he only a fair-weather friend?

On another note, if an idiot has a right to post some crap, other idiots too have a right to reply. The very mention of PP gets the goat of some people, really strange! And they talk of 'Team First', 'Praacess' and such other silly stuff. :D
You need SG(he is a doer) to make this team perform and not GC or PP(eloquent theorists).

actually, i have never been a hypocrite. so i think i am ok to cast a stone!  ;D
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jaat69

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2006, 06:02:04 AM »

I thought we were supposed to avoid ad hominem attacks and concentrate on the matter. At least, that was what some people were recommending as late as last week. What happened now?
He wrote a very general post on a very true matter. For eg, if any of you so much as suggest that SRT be rested/dropped for a couple of series, I will burn your effigies and make sure at least two MPs raise the issue in parliament. I will also sit on a hunger strike if he is so much as made to go down to the level of proving hmself at first class level. How dare a person with more than 15000 runs at the international level be made to play gully cricket!!

I definitely agree with Prem who has written about fans like me who don't care about the team while focussing on the individual.

....Which brings me to an old saying from a very old book --

"Let the one who has committed no sin cast the first stone"
...
You mean at Prem Panicker? I agree. If Prem is being a hypocrite here, let all those who have never been hypocrites on this DG be the first ones to cast a stone at him.

Wow! that was some defense! sacrificing self before PP, that was an act of unadultrated hero-worship.
btw.....what is so wrong in worshipping a player as against worshipping an agenda -driven yellow-journalist? Where is he hiding when India is doing badly for the last 6 months? Or is he only a fair-weather friend?

On another note, if an idiot has a right to post some crap, other idiots too have a right to reply. The very mention of PP gets the goat of some people, really strange! And they talk of 'Team First', 'Praacess' and such other silly stuff. :D
You need SG(he is a doer) to make this team perform and not GC or PP(eloquent theorists).

actually, i have never been a hypocrite. so i think i am ok to cast a stone!  ;D

Look, having a glass-house itself is not enough. You have to assess, who stand to lose more by the mutual stone-throwing! :D
If I win, an yellow-journalist will go. But if my opponents win, a player of the Indian team goes. I stand to lose more in this exercise either way! :(
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achutank

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2006, 03:30:41 PM »

Ok, when/where was PP against a specific player being dropped, and defended a player to be in the team despite that being harmful for the team as a whole?

here we go hiranyakashipu.

show me oh show me prahlad where is god?
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flute202020

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2006, 06:16:04 PM »

Everyone has their own gods or deities to worship, adore or thank.

For some it is Sourav Ganguly, for some it is Greg Chapell, for some SRT, for some VVS, for some RD, and for others it is Sharad Pawar, Rahul Dravid, and Greg Chapell rolled into one.

Which brings me to an old saying from a very old book --

"Let the one who has committed no sin cast the first stone"

also known as

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones at others.

 ;) ;)
kban, you of everyone? I never expected this type of reaction from you. Even though I disagree with you about your perception of PP's blog or columns, I do not want to angage in a debate on PP. My point is, your type of post can pretty much be used against any post on this DG, don't you think? afterall it is only about perception. I am sure there are some who think me talking about team is ridiculous when I hate SG so much and I am also sure there are some who think you talking about team doesn't make sense when you do steadfastly defend SG, to the detriment of the team. We can react this way to pretty much any post on this DG and there did be no debate. When the divisions are so stark and when battle lines are so well drawn, this type of shooting the messenger when we know the message is good is not conducive to discussion. Even assuming that the situation is like people in glass houses throwing stones, can we not concentrate on the message and leave the rest? Not trying to be preachy here, but there is another apt example we can use instead of the glass houses exmaple. A guy who used to hate *hi wrote an extremely critical and hateful account of *hi and went upto him and gave him this multiple page hate filled essay. *hi knew about this guy, smiled at him, took the papers, kept the pin which was used to keep the papers together and threw the papers into the sea. don't you think the pin in our instance is the message?

To get back to the topic the fineleg(appaluse to fineleg for starting this good topic) started, I completely agree with Prem on this. I have had similar thoughts and in fact I mentioned the same in my previous posts here. A strong star worshipping really makes it very difficult to make tough decisions. In USA, what I observed is that football fans are mostly crazy about the team, like I know a guy who painted his whole basement yellow to support his team. as far as I know, no much of star following in football and the talk is mostly about the team.

May be our attraction to individual players or heroes has something to do with our earlier tradition of loyalty to the king and not to the land or country. Before the advent of Brits, all the small kingdoms in India always had the tradition of loyalty to the king and there was very little talk of the province or the nation. The sooner we get rid of this habit, the better IMO.
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2006, 06:52:34 PM »

i posted very early in this thread and then ignored it because every post started with "PP this" and "PP that".
i think flute has brought the thread back on track. here's how to make it simple:

The point is: Is the basic idea in the article correct? Do we have a tendency to star worship, something which is best left aside? Yes, no, discuss.

the point is NOT: Do you agree with PP? Do you agree with the article because it is written by PP? Has PP lost the moral authority to write on cricket? Is PP bald and ugly?
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suraj

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2006, 07:06:19 PM »

i posted very early in this thread and then ignored it because every post started with "PP this" and "PP that".
i think flute has brought the thread back on track. here's how to make it simple:

The point is: Is the basic idea in the article correct? Do we have a tendency to star worship, something which is best left aside? Yes, no, discuss.

the point is NOT: Do you agree with PP? Do you agree with the article because it is written by PP? Has PP lost the moral authority to write on cricket? Is PP bald and ugly?

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
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fineleg

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Re: Prem on the cricket fans' Idol Worship
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2006, 07:32:38 PM »

i posted very early in this thread and then ignored it because every post started with "PP this" and "PP that".
i think flute has brought the thread back on track. here's how to make it simple:

The point is: Is the basic idea in the article correct? Do we have a tendency to star worship, something which is best left aside? Yes, no, discuss.

the point is NOT: Do you agree with PP? Do you agree with the article because it is written by PP? Has PP lost the moral authority to write on cricket? Is PP bald and ugly?

Thanks for bringing the focus back.
Becos this was written by PP it is being... how do I describe... this is article is being <sub achu's fav word> on.
I'll change the TITLE to remove PP from it, and then see if folks can actually get to "discuss".
« Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 07:36:05 PM by fineleg »
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