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Author Topic: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'  (Read 25730 times)

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dhruvdeepak

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Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« on: October 19, 2006, 09:26:27 AM »

I just finished reading JW's book on his experience of coaching India. I will post up a review of the book later (it will take some time to have a think and write it up). I thought I would open a thread where I can post small passages from his book, in the hope of generating some discussion. As ive gone through the book, i have placed some markers and made small notes about these passages. They stood out from the pages when I read them first, so I hope everyone will find them interesting.
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keep-it-cool

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2006, 09:28:18 AM »

how are you going to post the passages? actually typing them out??
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2006, 09:39:07 AM »

a big part of this book shows how emotional JW was about our team. He would often get more tense than the players themselves. He describes in quite some detail about how he got over it (and how he sometimes didnt).

This passage is from a chapter titled 'The Greatest Comeback since Lazarus'. As you can imagine, it is about that famous series vs Australia in 2001. The scene is the 3rd Test, with India requiring 155 to win the match and the series.

----
...small target wobbles set in as the Australians lifted their intensity, and anxiety crept into the batsmen's minds. The tension was enormous. I tried to relieve it by cracking jokes....
At tea I snuck off for a cigarette. I realise that smoking's bad for you, but the alternative seemed worse.
Laxman....was taking them apart when Colin Miller bowled him a juicy long-hop....No one but Mark Waugh would have caught it. Unfortunately, that's who happened to be at mid-wicket.
I tapped away on my laptop, a study in composed professionalism. What I actually wrote was: 'That may be the Test match. F**k, f**k, f**k.'
----


Another gem from JW, actually on the same page as the above piece, is a little bit about Samir Dighe, who replaced Nayan Mongia for that 3rd Test match in Chennai.

----
An awful lot rested on the shoulders of Dighe, who shouldn't even have been playing. His earlier lapses notwithstanding, he was a good man for the situation, a cheeky, street-smart operator who knew every trick in the book. When Zaheer got out to the middle, Dighe told him very loudly - and in English - that Miller was bowling really well and turning it square. Who knows whether Steve Waugh paid any attention, but he gave Miller another over from which Dighe took 10 precious runs.
----
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sgusa

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2006, 09:42:03 AM »

Wow didnt realise Dighe was that smart!
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Libran

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2006, 09:51:16 AM »

And I like the part in the initial stages when he writes about his first foray into County cricket to play for kent

He writes..." And I left behind my music system and my girlfriend both of which were in perfect working condition"

Real whacky sense of humor, I thought

And some portion on the tree in the ground...only the english would have replanted a new tree inside the ground after the earlier one had fallen off..or something to that effect
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inoc

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2006, 10:50:23 AM »

this is the bbc report after the tree fell after 290 years at canterbury kent. full of puns and good reading.

R.I.P. Kent's cricket ground tree 

KENT'S CRICKET GROUND TREE is over. It is stumped. May it rest in pieces.
Like many an England batsman, the Lime Tree which famously grew within the boundary rope of the Kent County Cricket Ground in Canterbury has fallen victim to the windies; strong gales have sent it to the county ground in the sky.
It was long favoured by fans of cricketing trivia, who could display their knowledge of the law applying to trees within the field of play (any batsman whose shot hits the tree, however, high or low, scores four runs; batsmen cannot be caught off the tree). It was also long treasured by followers of Kent cricket, who could console themselves that even when their team was unremarkable, there was at least one way they were unique.
 Happier times
Friends were concerned for the tree's well-being during Michael Fish's Hurricane Tour of 1987; seven oak trees in nearby Sevenoaks were nearly felled in their entirety by those winds. But the tree soldiered on until the weekend, when weakened by disease it finally succumbed. Like a cricketing Ozymandias, a seven-foot stump now stands like a vast and trunkless leg of stone.
Just three batsmen are officially recorded as having hit balls which went over the top of the tree completely; one was from rival Middlesex, two were from the West Indies, though the last man to do so, Carl Hooper, at least had the good form to be playing for Kent when he did it.
The tree is survived by an offshoot which has spent some years in the nursery, ready to step into its forefather's rootball. At just five feet tall, there are doubts if it is yet tree enough to withstand the impact from fielders or balls; the county's officials will debate if this is a part of the game's tradition they want to preserve.
But the old tree may now go the way of old wood... ashes to ashes.
No flowers.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4164313.stm
 
« Last Edit: October 19, 2006, 10:52:02 AM by inoc »
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caught and bowled

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2006, 11:44:25 AM »

I have finished the book too although I have read some chapters much more thoroughly than others. Was hoping to do something similar to what DD has planned, However, time is a major issue for me. Some random impressions:

-He comes across as somebody really genuine who has the interests of India, Indian team and Indian fans at heart. His frustration at the mixed progress of the team (one step forward, one step back!) is  quite evident throughout the book.

-When there are good things to say, he mentions people by their names. However, unpleasant  things are mentioned without taking any names

-He has a fantastic sense of humour and the book is written in "tongue firmly in cheek" style.

-He was much tougher than what the media had lead us  believe

-Tendulkar keeps and settles scores with other teams and their players. Apparently, during the innings break during the India-Pak WC03 match, a Paki  player is supposed to have  said something rude to one of  the Indian players who didn’t take it lying down. Things were getting ugly , Srinath had to step in and break the fight. In this context, Tendulkar, while stepping out to bat with Sehwag is supposed to have said  "I am going to get them".

-Tendulkar and Dravid sledged Waugh in Chennai in 2001 by asking "So Steve how is the final frontier looking now?"

-Although he is very diplomatic, he seems to have been quite frustrated with Ganguly's style of functioning. One gets a feeling that the two of them didn’t always sing from the same sheet.  E.g. Gavaskar showing up during the Australia series in India as a batting consultant in response to Ganguly's text message to him. However, Ganguly not informing Wright about it and Wright actually finding out from Gavaskar's talk during the team meeting.  Generally, there is lots one can read between the lines. (And it can be twisted any which way one wants).

-Off season, our players take it real easy in terms of fitness etc. The bad performances after the 2004 Australia in Australia and the win in Pak appear to be the result of our players becoming complacent and dropping their intensity

-He believes that some players are much more prone to being dropped than others. He feels that Kaif and Laxman are the Fall guys of Indian Cricket. Always two matches away from being dropped.

-He repeatedly talks about his respect for seniors like Kumble, Srinath, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman

-As far as the functioning of the board and it's officials is concerned, he has laid it out as it has been. It makes a very painful reading, especially since one knows that what he has written is absolutely true. The functioning of the board appears to be extremely unprofessional (so whats new?). Its really a miracle that people like Wright himself, Leipus, Le Raux etc. stuck around for as long as they did.  He feels that a lot of very talented Cricketers don’t make it  any where near to the top in Indian cricket simply because they do not have any Godfathers.

-Through out his tenure there were non performing big names and stars whom he would have liked to be dropped for couple of matches or series,  but couldn't. The players concerned knew that they wouldn't be touched and carried on with their merry ways.

-He had seized the Indian media and the board situation well and was very careful about how he handled them and what he put in writing etc.
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keep-it-cool

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2006, 12:01:09 PM »

Thanks, caught & bowled. That makes very interesting reading.

Especially the point about non performing big names and stars who knew they would not be touched - i guess the whip was needed

and what a whip it turned out to be!
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m

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2006, 12:46:01 PM »


I myself haven't read the book, but found this review from Rahul........http://greenchannel.blogspot.com/


Right man, Wright time
Tehelka, 24 September, 2006

The recurring themes that turn up every so often in John Wright’s Indian Summers — the realisation that a desk job is dour, the lure and the challenges of cricket, the demands on patience made by an often confounding country — bolster this story about the country’s first foreign cricket coach. “[In India, you see] much that is admirable and uplifting: the emphasis on family, the humility, the spirituality, the grace and dignity in the face of hardship,” he writes. “These were the people you wanted to do well for and who deserved a team which shed blood, sweat and tears.”

Wright coached India for five years, overseeing and, with Sourav Ganguly, forging a transformation from the sedentary tea-and-biscuit days of previous decades to ones of toil and success when it mattered. His book captures what it took to effect change in an environment of strong opposition from an entrenched system. “The nature of the system meant that survival was the number one priority,” he writes, “so it was little wonder it produced cricketers who tended to play for themselves.” He could not change it from the ground up, as he desired, but he tried persuading people who mattered to do things differently instead. Persuasion, he realised, could vary from a soft word to grabbing someone’s collar. Making his way through the subtleties of Indian cricket, Wright finds that his status as an outsider affords him a certain leeway. “During my last season, Viru said to me that speaking your mind in India was not easy because emotions got involved. ‘We can’t say it like you do, John... If you speak your mind and upset someone in India, he can take it to his heart and it can remain with him for a long time.’”

Wright’s account of his India years is similar in many ways to a travelogue, with its wonder-struck descriptions of the cricketing landscape, the characters central to its story, and how the country grew for him in personal meaning. His tenure begins with a series of mishaps which become commonplace once he settles down. He understands selection procedure only when his players explain it. “When I raised the issue at a selection meeting,” he says, “I got blank stares.” He is bemused by the crazy scheduling. His friend Raj Singh Dungarpur advises him to be patient, and the words hold him in good stead. Over time he understands that everybody is held hostage to everybody else. “Looking back on it, I tend to think we were all prisoners of the system, even Dalmiya… I know for a fact that many coaches and former and current players want to do things differently, but they too are prisoners of a system they can’t crack from within and don’t know where to begin.”

This focus is often turned inwards, and the story of his personal growth is as captivating as are the accounts of his dealings with the players, for whom he feels great empathy. “Getting dropped is horrible, but it’s even worse when you’re a big-name player and an established figure in the team... You think it’s a bull* call, but there’s nothing you can do about it.” One chapter, in which he tracks his cricketers’ path to the international game, is a telling study of the hard life before the recognition. In explaining the lives and choices of the cricketers he lived with for half a decade, a large portion is also dedicated to why some lose their head when success comes.

Indian Summers explores modern India as few other cricket books have. The usual stories, the ones that grab the headlines, are all here, but the picture’s bigger. Wright understands how much the sport means to the country, and explains it as justly as he can. In hindsight, every moment that brought controversy was part of an ongoing process to leave the comfortable past behind, change mindsets and override the huge role politics play. In the centre of it all is Wright, who grew to take uninvited ex-players and BCCI gaffes in his stride, and who has left us with a book that is revealing about both cricket and the country it is played in.
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achutank

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2006, 12:52:54 PM »

this is the bbc report after the tree fell after 290 years at canterbury kent. full of puns and good reading.

R.I.P. Kent's cricket ground tree 

KENT'S CRICKET GROUND TREE is over. It is stumped. May it rest in pieces.
Like many an England batsman, the Lime Tree which famously grew within the boundary rope of the Kent County Cricket Ground in Canterbury has fallen victim to the windies; strong gales have sent it to the county ground in the sky.
It was long favoured by fans of cricketing trivia, who could display their knowledge of the law applying to trees within the field of play (any batsman whose shot hits the tree, however, high or low, scores four runs; batsmen cannot be caught off the tree). It was also long treasured by followers of Kent cricket, who could console themselves that even when their team was unremarkable, there was at least one way they were unique.
 Happier times
Friends were concerned for the tree's well-being during Michael Fish's Hurricane Tour of 1987; seven oak trees in nearby Sevenoaks were nearly felled in their entirety by those winds. But the tree soldiered on until the weekend, when weakened by disease it finally succumbed. Like a cricketing Ozymandias, a seven-foot stump now stands like a vast and trunkless leg of stone.
Just three batsmen are officially recorded as having hit balls which went over the top of the tree completely; one was from rival Middlesex, two were from the West Indies, though the last man to do so, Carl Hooper, at least had the good form to be playing for Kent when he did it.
The tree is survived by an offshoot which has spent some years in the nursery, ready to step into its forefather's rootball. At just five feet tall, there are doubts if it is yet tree enough to withstand the impact from fielders or balls; the county's officials will debate if this is a part of the game's tradition they want to preserve.
But the old tree may now go the way of old wood... ashes to ashes.
No flowers.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4164313.stm
 


i saw rahul dravid play on this ground along with AK

one of the few memorable moments in a life threatening to go extremely wrong
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Cover Point

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2006, 02:42:30 PM »

-Although he is very diplomatic, he seems to have been quite frustrated with Ganguly's style of functioning. One gets a feeling that the two of them didn’t always sing from the same sheet.  E.g. Gavaskar showing up during the Australia series in India as a batting consultant in response to Ganguly's text message to him. However, Ganguly not informing Wright about it and Wright actually finding out from Gavaskar's talk during the team meeting.  Generally, there is lots one can read between the lines. (And it can be twisted any which way one wants).

Now u have done it. You are lucky that Pitamah is here in Chicago and does not have access to a computer for the most part or else u would have faced the "wrath of KbAN". You dont say anything bad about Ganguly specially in the Wright years and get away with it :)
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Jai

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2006, 03:09:14 PM »

-Although he is very diplomatic, he seems to have been quite frustrated with Ganguly's style of functioning. One gets a feeling that the two of them didn’t always sing from the same sheet.  E.g. Gavaskar showing up during the Australia series in India as a batting consultant in response to Ganguly's text message to him. However, Ganguly not informing Wright about it and Wright actually finding out from Gavaskar's talk during the team meeting.  Generally, there is lots one can read between the lines. (And it can be twisted any which way one wants).

Now u have done it. You are lucky that Pitamah is here in Chicago and does not have access to a computer for the most part or else u would have faced the "wrath of KbAN". You dont say anything bad about Ganguly specially in the Wright years and get away with it :)

CP yaar, it's not him but JW who has said it. So we know one side of the story. Wait till SG writes his. But I know what your reaction is going to be. :)There's nothing new that I have learnt today...at least till now. All these have been posted after the book came out. But where are the positive things that JW mentioned about SG? Hopefully people will post those too as posted online on many websites earlier.
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caught and bowled

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2006, 03:14:43 PM »

Folks, I didn't particularly go looking for positive or negative things written about Ganguly. As  I have said, these have been my random impressions upon  reading the book
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poondu

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2006, 03:24:00 PM »

good stuff c&b. Applause
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Jai

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2006, 03:24:01 PM »

Folks, I didn't particularly go looking for positive or negative things written about Ganguly. As  I have said, these have been my random impressions upon  reading the book


I understand, don't worry. That's why my comments were for CP and not for you. It doesn't bother me because I've read quite a lot from this book incl. the negative ones about SG and I am sure if there's more to it, Indian media surely would have published those. Who would let go something so juicy?
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Cover Point

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2006, 03:41:09 PM »

And I need to clarify. I picked that particular point since it had "funny potential" for this DG.

Jai, Its pretty obvious that Wright held Ganguly in high regard in MANY MANY things. He wrote a lot about it. But as Kban said the other day (I actually got to meet the great man) even Wright probably felt Ganguly was past his prime.

Wright and Ganguly were both passionate and wanted the best for the Indian team. Its their understanding of what would be good for the team may have been different. This particular incident was probably not good. Other times where some of the "untouchables" in the team insulted the coach were not good. Th wins against Aussies and Pak were Good :)
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poondu

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2006, 03:44:47 PM »

But as Kban said the other day (I actually got to meet the great man)

So how was the conversation between you and Kban ?
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Cover Point

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2006, 03:51:24 PM »

But as Kban said the other day (I actually got to meet the great man)

So how was the conversation between you and Kban ?

I am still alive arent I :)
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born_spectator

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2006, 03:54:33 PM »

But as Kban said the other day (I actually got to meet the great man)

So how was the conversation between you and Kban ?

let me guess .. lengthy ..!! ;)
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Jai

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2006, 04:05:15 PM »

And I need to clarify. I picked that particular point since it had "funny potential" for this DG.

Jai, Its pretty obvious that Wright held Ganguly in high regard in MANY MANY things. He wrote a lot about it. But as Kban said the other day (I actually got to meet the great man) even Wright probably felt Ganguly was past his prime.

Wright and Ganguly were both passionate and wanted the best for the Indian team. Its their understanding of what would be good for the team may have been different. This particular incident was probably not good. Other times where some of the "untouchables" in the team insulted the coach were not good. Th wins against Aussies and Pak were Good :)

I don't believe that you have met Kban. Did you? Really? Impossible. Well, Singh also sometime meets Mushy. So I guess it's not impossible. Were you armed? Did anyone show up with bodyguard? So what did you guys discuss? Did anything get passed under the table? Did he promise you any favor? Ah, so you are going to be a Mod soon. I knew it. Don't tell me you asked him about who's smiting you. I need to keep an eye on your smite count. Any decrease in the count and I am quitting. If I see Kban criticizing SG from now on, I'll get you CP - dead or alive !!
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poondu

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2006, 04:09:28 PM »

And I need to clarify. I picked that particular point since it had "funny potential" for this DG.

Jai, Its pretty obvious that Wright held Ganguly in high regard in MANY MANY things. He wrote a lot about it. But as Kban said the other day (I actually got to meet the great man) even Wright probably felt Ganguly was past his prime.

Wright and Ganguly were both passionate and wanted the best for the Indian team. Its their understanding of what would be good for the team may have been different. This particular incident was probably not good. Other times where some of the "untouchables" in the team insulted the coach were not good. Th wins against Aussies and Pak were Good :)

I don't believe that you have met Kban. Did you? Really? Impossible. Well, Singh also sometime meets Mushy. So I guess it's not impossible. Were you armed? Did anyone show up with bodyguard? So what did you guys discuss? Did anything get passed under the table? Did he promise you any favor? Ah, so you are going to be a Mod soon. I knew it. Don't tell me you asked him about who's smiting you. I need to keep an eye on your smite count. Any decrease in the count and I am quitting. If I see Kban criticizing SG from now on, I'll get you CP - dead or alive !!
;D  ;D
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ruchir

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2006, 04:15:32 PM »

DD, C&B, etc...

Nice snippets from Wright's book. Thanks for posting them.
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Cover Point

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2006, 04:37:29 PM »

And I need to clarify. I picked that particular point since it had "funny potential" for this DG.

Jai, Its pretty obvious that Wright held Ganguly in high regard in MANY MANY things. He wrote a lot about it. But as Kban said the other day (I actually got to meet the great man) even Wright probably felt Ganguly was past his prime.

Wright and Ganguly were both passionate and wanted the best for the Indian team. Its their understanding of what would be good for the team may have been different. This particular incident was probably not good. Other times where some of the "untouchables" in the team insulted the coach were not good. Th wins against Aussies and Pak were Good :)

I don't believe that you have met Kban. Did you? Really? Impossible. Well, Singh also sometime meets Mushy. So I guess it's not impossible. Were you armed? Did anyone show up with bodyguard? So what did you guys discuss? Did anything get passed under the table? Did he promise you any favor? Ah, so you are going to be a Mod soon. I knew it. Don't tell me you asked him about who's smiting you. I need to keep an eye on your smite count. Any decrease in the count and I am quitting. If I see Kban criticizing SG from now on, I'll get you CP - dead or alive !!

Ha ha ... I think we had a good discussion on SG. Its actually not surprising. If you look below the noise (SG sucks no GC sucks etc etc) most of us actually dont say too many different things on SG. Most (even Ravi yikes) believe that SG's chances are thinning. At current form he doesnt deserve a chance etc etc. I think the differences are at whether he should have been dropped WHEN he was dropped and how he was handled etc. The other key thing that I got a better understanding of was Kban's take on the Nagpur fiasco.

So no worries no conversions or anything.

On the smite count. I would be very unhappy if it drops. I need to get to 1000 soon!

And Pitamah criticizing SG... ram ka naam lo... he is a true Bengali .. how can he do that :) (he will kill me for this one :) )

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kban1

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2006, 07:08:59 AM »

Quote
Quote from: Cover Point on October 19, 2006, 08:42:30 AM
Quote
Quote from: caught and bowled on October 19, 2006, 05:44:25 AM
-Although he is very diplomatic, he seems to have been quite frustrated with Ganguly's style of functioning. One gets a feeling that the two of them didn’t always sing from the same sheet.  E.g. Gavaskar showing up during the Australia series in India as a batting consultant in response to Ganguly's text message to him. However, Ganguly not informing Wright about it and Wright actually finding out from Gavaskar's talk during the team meeting.  Generally, there is lots one can read between the lines. (And it can be twisted any which way one wants).

Now u have done it. You are lucky that Pitamah is here in Chicago and does not have access to a computer for the most part or else u would have faced the "wrath of KbAN". You dont say anything bad about Ganguly specially in the Wright years and get away with it


Quote
And Pitamah criticizing SG... ram ka naam lo... he is a true Bengali .. how can he do that  :) (he will kill me for this one  :) )


Hare ram, Hare ram -- I have criticized SG too, on many an occasion; unfair is all I can say  ::) ::)
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justforkix

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2006, 07:24:29 AM »

DD, C&B, and others who have read the book - Is the book a good read and worth buying ?!?
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2006, 07:32:51 AM »

DD, C&B, and others who have read the book - Is the book a good read and worth buying ?!?
yes it is. i will post more detail in my review of the book, but go ahead and buy it, its a good read.
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achutank

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2006, 07:38:23 AM »

DD, C&B, and others who have read the book - Is the book a good read and worth buying ?!?
yes it is. i will post more detail in my review of the book, but go ahead and buy it, its a good read.

are you waiitng for bade bhaiyya KS to finsih his review before you post yours?

both of you have been threatening for some time. get on with it mates.
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2006, 08:04:31 AM »

On Le Roux, team fitness, and Jaggu Daada's role(??):

----
Having a dedicated fitness trainer in Adrian le Roux helped Dravid prepare for his demanding new role [as wicket-keeper]. Adrian was in charge of getting the players fit...this enabled Andrew Leipus and me to focus on our jobs instead of being physio-cum-trainer and coach-cum-trainer. Adrian....emerged as clearly the man for the job. Before I could tell him, however, he saw Jagmohan dalmiya announce on TV that the Indian cricket team was hiring a South African fitness trainer.

Among the things Adrian brought to the set-up was his dreaded vernier caliper which was used for fortnightly skinfold tests to measure body fat. That information, and the various fitness test results, were faxed to Dalmiya. Adrian didnt arrive a moment too soon....only two players - Kaif and Ajit Agarkar - were encouraged to put on weight.

Rather than rush in and try to change everything, Adrian took the time to get to know the players as individuals and understand their histories and playing roles. He assured them he wasnt there to overturn their traditional diet, but to ensure that their intake was appropriate for elite athletes and to help them get the best out of themselves.
----
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In the attitude of silence the soul finds the path in a clearer light, and what is elusive and deceptive resolves itself into crystal clearness. Our life is a long and arduous quest after Truth.
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Cover Point

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2006, 04:11:25 PM »

Hare ram, Hare ram -- I have criticized SG too, on many an occasion; unfair is all I can say  ::) ::)

All I meant was your affection to the great (ex) player. Cant say I remember actual criticism but yes you have said that SG is not in form and currently does not deserve to be selected.

on another note Kban you should post your (detailed) version of the nagpur events and the translation of the article you referred to. It would be educational for the board
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2006, 04:06:43 AM »

For an inside look into how lackadaisical the setup was before JW came along, this little excerpt, from the chapter about the famous 2001 series vs Australia.

----
For security reasons the two teams stayed in the same hotel. I wandered into the gym to find Ricky Ponting, Matthew Hayden, Justin Langer and Buchanan engaged in an intense work-out under the supervision of their fitness trainer. On the other side of the gym one of the Indian players was pedalling away on an exercycle in a somewhat lackadaisical fashion. So lackadaisical in fact, that he was wearing one of those chunky, hippie-style sandals and having a cup of tea! Before I could get my head around the implications of this scene, the door burst open and a waiter bustled in with a plate of sandwiches for him. I looked at Ponting and he gave me a quizzical look.
----


yeh hai hamara culture, bhai. Just imagine how ridiculous the scene was. Matthew Hayden pumping iron with the trainer spotting him on one side, and a Zaheer Khan for instance happily pedalling away, reading the newspaper and having some tea and sandwiches, on the other side of the gym.
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In the attitude of silence the soul finds the path in a clearer light, and what is elusive and deceptive resolves itself into crystal clearness. Our life is a long and arduous quest after Truth.
-- Mohandas K *hi

dextrous

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2006, 07:02:21 AM »

For an inside look into how lackadaisical the setup was before JW came along, this little excerpt, from the chapter about the famous 2001 series vs Australia.

----
For security reasons the two teams stayed in the same hotel. I wandered into the gym to find Ricky Ponting, Matthew Hayden, Justin Langer and Buchanan engaged in an intense work-out under the supervision of their fitness trainer. On the other side of the gym one of the Indian players was pedalling away on an exercycle in a somewhat lackadaisical fashion. So lackadaisical in fact, that he was wearing one of those chunky, hippie-style sandals and having a cup of tea! Before I could get my head around the implications of this scene, the door burst open and a waiter bustled in with a plate of sandwiches for him. I looked at Ponting and he gave me a quizzical look.
----


yeh hai hamara culture, bhai. Just imagine how ridiculous the scene was. Matthew Hayden pumping iron with the trainer spotting him on one side, and a Zaheer Khan for instance happily pedalling away, reading the newspaper and having some tea and sandwiches, on the other side of the gym.

Did we not win a World Cup, pakodas, curries, n all included  :P
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chetan

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2006, 01:11:45 PM »

For an inside look into how lackadaisical the setup was before JW came along, this little excerpt, from the chapter about the famous 2001 series vs Australia.

----
For security reasons the two teams stayed in the same hotel. I wandered into the gym to find Ricky Ponting, Matthew Hayden, Justin Langer and Buchanan engaged in an intense work-out under the supervision of their fitness trainer. On the other side of the gym one of the Indian players was pedalling away on an exercycle in a somewhat lackadaisical fashion. So lackadaisical in fact, that he was wearing one of those chunky, hippie-style sandals and having a cup of tea! Before I could get my head around the implications of this scene, the door burst open and a waiter bustled in with a plate of sandwiches for him. I looked at Ponting and he gave me a quizzical look.
----


yeh hai hamara culture, bhai. Just imagine how ridiculous the scene was. Matthew Hayden pumping iron with the trainer spotting him on one side, and a Zaheer Khan for instance happily pedalling away, reading the newspaper and having some tea and sandwiches, on the other side of the gym.

Did we not win a World Cup, pakodas, curries, n all included  :P

that's the difference between them and us.. we still keep bringing up a world cup 25 years ago that we won without even dominating the event.. and they concentrate on domiating and winning each one of them and do whatever is required. if our 'culture' allows for unprofessionalism, insecurities etc., i say plant the seeds of change now.
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ruchir

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2006, 01:39:53 PM »

For an inside look into how lackadaisical the setup was before JW came along, this little excerpt, from the chapter about the famous 2001 series vs Australia.

----
For security reasons the two teams stayed in the same hotel. I wandered into the gym to find Ricky Ponting, Matthew Hayden, Justin Langer and Buchanan engaged in an intense work-out under the supervision of their fitness trainer. On the other side of the gym one of the Indian players was pedalling away on an exercycle in a somewhat lackadaisical fashion. So lackadaisical in fact, that he was wearing one of those chunky, hippie-style sandals and having a cup of tea! Before I could get my head around the implications of this scene, the door burst open and a waiter bustled in with a plate of sandwiches for him. I looked at Ponting and he gave me a quizzical look.
----


yeh hai hamara culture, bhai. Just imagine how ridiculous the scene was. Matthew Hayden pumping iron with the trainer spotting him on one side, and a Zaheer Khan for instance happily pedalling away, reading the newspaper and having some tea and sandwiches, on the other side of the gym.

Did we not win a World Cup, pakodas, curries, n all included  :P

that's the difference between them and us.. we still keep bringing up a world cup 25 years ago that we won without even dominating the event.. and they concentrate on domiating and winning each one of them and do whatever is required. if our 'culture' allows for unprofessionalism, insecurities etc., i say plant the seeds of change now.

chetan -- your sentiments are correct, that we keep harping that the team in 1983 won the WC inspite of not being super-fit, eating what-not etc. etc., and fans and players in this day and age should not have the same attitude.

However, look at these things about 1983 WC:

We played 8 games in that WC and won 6 of them (including finals)
We defeated WI in our 1st game of WC'83. We batted first there too.
We defeated AUS in our 6th game of WC'83.
We lost to AUS and WI once each in games # 3, 4.
We defeated ENG in Semi-Finals.
We defeated WI again in Finals.

So, we defeated WI, AUS, ENG in WC'83. Those were the top teams of that era. So, I would say that we may not have won each and every game like AUS did in last WC, but we did failry well by defeating (possible) top 3 nations of that time, not to mention winning the cup itself.

However, I still maintain that if I were to make a choice between our winning the finals or WI losing, I would probably choose WI losing the finals out of sheer arrogance. I was very young in '83, so I don't remember how both teams played but my elder brother and many others say that when WI came to bat, they simply played like SA played against NA recently... rash strokes filled with non-chalance and arrogance.
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ramshorns

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2006, 01:53:26 PM »

For an inside look into how lackadaisical the setup was before JW came along, this little excerpt, from the chapter about the famous 2001 series vs Australia.

----
For security reasons the two teams stayed in the same hotel. I wandered into the gym to find Ricky Ponting, Matthew Hayden, Justin Langer and Buchanan engaged in an intense work-out under the supervision of their fitness trainer. On the other side of the gym one of the Indian players was pedalling away on an exercycle in a somewhat lackadaisical fashion. So lackadaisical in fact, that he was wearing one of those chunky, hippie-style sandals and having a cup of tea! Before I could get my head around the implications of this scene, the door burst open and a waiter bustled in with a plate of sandwiches for him. I looked at Ponting and he gave me a quizzical look.
----


yeh hai hamara culture, bhai. Just imagine how ridiculous the scene was. Matthew Hayden pumping iron with the trainer spotting him on one side, and a Zaheer Khan for instance happily pedalling away, reading the newspaper and having some tea and sandwiches, on the other side of the gym.

Did we not win a World Cup, pakodas, curries, n all included  :P

that's the difference between them and us.. we still keep bringing up a world cup 25 years ago that we won without even dominating the event.. and they concentrate on domiating and winning each one of them and do whatever is required. if our 'culture' allows for unprofessionalism, insecurities etc., i say plant the seeds of change now.

chetan -- your sentiments are correct, that we keep harping that the team in 1983 won the WC inspite of not being super-fit, eating what-not etc. etc., and fans and players in this day and age should not have the same attitude.

However, look at these things about 1983 WC:

We played 8 games in that WC and won 6 of them (including finals)
We defeated WI in our 1st game of WC'83. We batted first there too.
We defeated AUS in our 6th game of WC'83.
We lost to AUS and WI once each in games # 3, 4.
We defeated ENG in Semi-Finals.
We defeated WI again in Finals.

So, we defeated WI, AUS, ENG in WC'83. Those were the top teams of that era. So, I would say that we may not have won each and every game like AUS did in last WC, but we did failry well by defeating (possible) top 3 nations of that time, not to mention winning the cup itself.

However, I still maintain that if I were to make a choice between our winning the finals or WI losing, I would probably choose WI losing the finals out of sheer arrogance. I was very young in '83, so I don't remember how both teams played but my elder brother and many others say that when WI came to bat, they simply played like SA played against NA recently... rash strokes filled with non-chalance and arrogance.
Actually I was a 14 year old at the time.  Though you can attribute some to the non-chalance of WI's except for Viv Richards who I must admit was just tearing the bowling apart and then that Kapil's great catch that turned around the final IMO.  That stroke was a top edge from a typical Richards hoick which Kapil running 30 yards judged to perfection. Now to me efforts like that turn around matches on their head and that is what has happended. 

Actually for most part the conditions that day favored the Kapil led seam attack and they were perfect for us.  Sure in hindsight if Viv slowed down perhaps WI's would have coasted to Victory but then looking back there will be so many such instances in history where one team won because of others teams faulty strategy.

Hence I give more credit to India on that June 25th afternoon for pulling this off than say WI's handed it to us.
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justforkix

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2006, 01:56:26 PM »

For an inside look into how lackadaisical the setup was before JW came along, this little excerpt, from the chapter about the famous 2001 series vs Australia.

----
For security reasons the two teams stayed in the same hotel. I wandered into the gym to find Ricky Ponting, Matthew Hayden, Justin Langer and Buchanan engaged in an intense work-out under the supervision of their fitness trainer. On the other side of the gym one of the Indian players was pedalling away on an exercycle in a somewhat lackadaisical fashion. So lackadaisical in fact, that he was wearing one of those chunky, hippie-style sandals and having a cup of tea! Before I could get my head around the implications of this scene, the door burst open and a waiter bustled in with a plate of sandwiches for him. I looked at Ponting and he gave me a quizzical look.
----


yeh hai hamara culture, bhai. Just imagine how ridiculous the scene was. Matthew Hayden pumping iron with the trainer spotting him on one side, and a Zaheer Khan for instance happily pedalling away, reading the newspaper and having some tea and sandwiches, on the other side of the gym.

Asterix and the Olympics immeidately came to my mind  :D :D
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born_spectator

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2006, 02:15:27 PM »

It is the threads like these that make the time spent on the DG worthwhile.

Nice job DD and caught&Bowled
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chetan

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2006, 02:49:52 PM »

For an inside look into how lackadaisical the setup was before JW came along, this little excerpt, from the chapter about the famous 2001 series vs Australia.

----
For security reasons the two teams stayed in the same hotel. I wandered into the gym to find Ricky Ponting, Matthew Hayden, Justin Langer and Buchanan engaged in an intense work-out under the supervision of their fitness trainer. On the other side of the gym one of the Indian players was pedalling away on an exercycle in a somewhat lackadaisical fashion. So lackadaisical in fact, that he was wearing one of those chunky, hippie-style sandals and having a cup of tea! Before I could get my head around the implications of this scene, the door burst open and a waiter bustled in with a plate of sandwiches for him. I looked at Ponting and he gave me a quizzical look.
----


yeh hai hamara culture, bhai. Just imagine how ridiculous the scene was. Matthew Hayden pumping iron with the trainer spotting him on one side, and a Zaheer Khan for instance happily pedalling away, reading the newspaper and having some tea and sandwiches, on the other side of the gym.

Did we not win a World Cup, pakodas, curries, n all included  :P

that's the difference between them and us.. we still keep bringing up a world cup 25 years ago that we won without even dominating the event.. and they concentrate on domiating and winning each one of them and do whatever is required. if our 'culture' allows for unprofessionalism, insecurities etc., i say plant the seeds of change now.

chetan -- your sentiments are correct, that we keep harping that the team in 1983 won the WC inspite of not being super-fit, eating what-not etc. etc., and fans and players in this day and age should not have the same attitude.

However, look at these things about 1983 WC:

We played 8 games in that WC and won 6 of them (including finals)
We defeated WI in our 1st game of WC'83. We batted first there too.
We defeated AUS in our 6th game of WC'83.
We lost to AUS and WI once each in games # 3, 4.
We defeated ENG in Semi-Finals.
We defeated WI again in Finals.

So, we defeated WI, AUS, ENG in WC'83. Those were the top teams of that era. So, I would say that we may not have won each and every game like AUS did in last WC, but we did failry well by defeating (possible) top 3 nations of that time, not to mention winning the cup itself.

However, I still maintain that if I were to make a choice between our winning the finals or WI losing, I would probably choose WI losing the finals out of sheer arrogance. I was very young in '83, so I don't remember how both teams played but my elder brother and many others say that when WI came to bat, they simply played like SA played against NA recently... rash strokes filled with non-chalance and arrogance.

i was not born till two years after the WC, so my impression that we didn't dominate the WC was formed over the years after reading that we almost lost to zimbawe, that no one expected us to beat WI a second time in the final etc.. maybe i was wrong. i do know that we dominated one-day cricket a few years after the 83 WC (1985 benson and hedges series), so maybe all the articles i read were just dramatising.
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Rocky

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2006, 05:13:43 PM »

India in 83 were just plain lucky that none of the other teams took them seriously.
The other good fact was the long batting line up with everyone upto Jack able to wield the bat to some extent.
So we had somebody or the other who would put up their hand for us.
We also had genuine swingers of the ball like Amarnath, Sandhu, Binny, Madan Lal and Kapil and hard hitters like Patil, Kapil and Srikkanth.
All in all a bunch of bits and pieces players who revelled in conditions tailor made for them in England.
West Indies thrashed India (5-0 if I remember correctly) just a few months later when they came here on a tour.
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dextrous

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2006, 06:16:40 PM »

India in 83 were just plain lucky that none of the other teams took them seriously.
The other good fact was the long batting line up with everyone upto Jack able to wield the bat to some extent.
So we had somebody or the other who would put up their hand for us.
We also had genuine swingers of the ball like Amarnath, Sandhu, Binny, Madan Lal and Kapil and hard hitters like Patil, Kapil and Srikkanth.
All in all a bunch of bits and pieces players who revelled in conditions tailor made for them in England.
West Indies thrashed India (5-0 if I remember correctly) just a few months later when they came here on a tour.

Lucky? Because no one took them seriously?
By that reason Bangladesh and Zimbabwe should win the World Cup.

There was nothing "lucky" about the WC win!
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vijay

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Re: Excerpts From JW's 'Indian Summers'
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2006, 07:40:25 PM »

India in 83 were just plain lucky that none of the other teams took them seriously.
The other good fact was the long batting line up with everyone upto Jack able to wield the bat to some extent.
So we had somebody or the other who would put up their hand for us.
We also had genuine swingers of the ball like Amarnath, Sandhu, Binny, Madan Lal and Kapil and hard hitters like Patil, Kapil and Srikkanth.
All in all a bunch of bits and pieces players who revelled in conditions tailor made for them in England.
West Indies thrashed India (5-0 if I remember correctly) just a few months later when they came here on a tour.

India beat W Indies not once- but TWICE during that 83 World Cup. In the semi final, against the home side (who stood to gain the most from English conditions), India beat England COMPREHENSIVELY.  So if teams weren't taking this side seriously, then they were dumb. Dummies do not deserve any luck.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2006, 07:42:58 PM by vijay »
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