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lonedesi

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New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« on: July 21, 2006, 12:17:40 PM »

http://cricket.expressindia.com/fulleistory.php?content_id=71399

In a surprising move, former Team India captain Sourav Ganguly has written an email to the Kolkata Police Commissioner Prasun Mukherjee, and extended his support to Mukherjee who is contesting against Jagmohan Dalmiya in the Cricket Association of Bengal (CAB) elections, reports CNN-IBN.
 
Ganguly has also written that he is thankful to the West Bengal CM Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee for interfering in the CAB elections.

In the email he has blamed Dalmiya for his downfall and said that CAB is playing with the future of players.

"The person responsible for leaking coach Greg Chappell's email to the media should be punished," he added.


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prfsr

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2006, 12:28:23 PM »

Not sure yet if this news is authentic. But even if it is, it is not a can of worms. In fact rumors are that Pawar had asked SG sr (Chandi Ganguly) to run against JD if they wanted Sg to have any chances of making a comeback. CG refused (long time friend of JD etc) but SG's elder brother was openly campaigning against JD, so it is hardly surprising that SG supports JD's opponent.

This is a lose-lose situation for SG really. If he did not endorse Prasun Mukherjee Pawar gets angry. If he does, the BCCI can censure him and use this to prevent his comeback.

-P

http://cricket.expressindia.com/fulleistory.php?content_id=71399

In a surprising move, former Team India captain Sourav Ganguly has written an email to the Kolkata Police Commissioner Prasun Mukherjee, and extended his support to Mukherjee who is contesting against Jagmohan Dalmiya in the Cricket Association of Bengal (CAB) elections, reports CNN-IBN.
 
Ganguly has also written that he is thankful to the West Bengal CM Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee for interfering in the CAB elections.

In the email he has blamed Dalmiya for his downfall and said that CAB is playing with the future of players.

"The person responsible for leaking coach Greg Chappell's email to the media should be punished," he added.



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achutank

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2006, 12:35:27 PM »

well you play with fire someday its going to get you. but SG is that type of guy, he doen't care about controversies but he does care about doing the right thing. this is the right thing to do, to come openly and say his mind abt the issue.
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2006, 01:05:09 PM »

http://www.ibnlive.com/cricket/dalmia-caused-my-downfall-ganguly/16272-5.html

New Delhi: Former Indian skipper Sourav Ganguly has written an e-mail to the Police Commissioner of Kolkata, Prasun Mukherjee, and supported him in his contest against Jagmohan Dalmiya in the Cricket Association of Bengal (CAB) elections.

Ganguly has also written that he is thankful to the Chief Minister of Bengal, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee, for interfering in the CAB elections.

And in what may come as a surprise to many, he has blamed Dalmiya for his downfall and said that CAB is playing with the future of players.

He adds that the person responsible for leaking coach Greg Chappell's e-mail to the media should be punished.

Ganguly's outburst against Dalmiya comes as a surprise as it is widely believed that the Bengal southpaw always had Dalmiya's support.

Dalmiya came out in support of Ganguly after the Bengal southpaw was stripped of the captaincy of Team India and dropped from the team.

The Ganguly-Chappell Saga

Cricket in India is more of a religion than a game. And in recent times the issue that has generated the maximum heat in Indian cricket has been the relationship between former Indian skipper Sourav Ganguly and coach Greg Chappell.

Many people have been blaming Chappell for the axing of Ganguly from Team India and even some of the action of the two has show that all is not right between them.

During Team India's tour to Zimbabwe last year, Ganguly had said that Chappell had told him to opt out of the playing XI as he was not in his best form.

That issue had divided the Indian cricket fans and even the administrators into pro- and anti-Ganguly camps with many saying that Ganguly's form did not merit him a place in the team.

Then came the Board of Control for Cricket in India election in which Sharad Pawar-led team defeated Jagmohan Dalmiya's group.

After the Zimbabwe tour, which was India's first Test series win outside the subcontinent in nearly 20 years, Ganguly was removed as Indian skipper and also dropped from the team.

After that it was all downhill for one of India's best batsman and certainly its best Test captain.

Ganguly was taken back into the team only to be dropped a few days later.

Then the new selection committee chairman, Kiran More, in an interview to cricinfo website said that as long as he was the chief of the selection committee Ganguly had no chance of making a come back.

Even the action and some of Chappell words hinted that he was not in favour of Ganguly coming back into the team.

And at every step Dalmiya was there to stand up and speak in favour of Ganguly.
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2006, 01:17:35 PM »

we had discussed this before, in depth - my view was for ganguly to zip it and score some runs. there were some opposing opinions, suggesting that the quagmire which he was in was a lose-lose situation. well, as achu said, these are the consequences of his affiliations and now who knows what will happen.
as i said before - he should stay quiet and score some big 100s. he has done neither.
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Cover Point

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2006, 02:01:58 PM »

He obviously figured that in the light of his lack of runs this was the best option he had.  So go back to doing what he does best .. politics.

The last comeback he had was due to a dinner engagement with Pawar (when he missed a domestic match due to "personal" issues) and the next onewill be due to open politics.

Sab Kursi ka fer hai bhaiyya!
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dextrous

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2006, 02:04:11 PM »

He obviously figured that in the light of his lack of runs this was the best option he had.  So go back to doing what he does best .. politics.

The last comeback he had was due to a dinner engagement with Pawar (when he missed a domestic match due to "personal" issues) and the next onewill be due to open politics.

Sab Kursi ka fer hai bhaiyya!

REALLY? What great political practices has he indulged in? Is it his fault JD liked him? Or that they were both based in Bengal?
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jaat69

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2006, 02:06:08 PM »

SG ne jo kiya, sahi kiya!
Baat khatm!
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Cover Point

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2006, 02:45:26 PM »

REALLY? What great political practices has he indulged in? Is it his fault JD liked him? Or that they were both based in Bengal?

No JD liking him isnt his fault BUT

Him picking a dinner with a politician over a domestic game is his fault
Not scoring any runs and still wanting to be selected is his fault
Sending emails supporting politicians and playing politics with them is his fault.
Holding on to his position past his use by date is his fault!
Not running between the wickets prperly, not fielding well is his fault!
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OldPal

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I don't expect loyalty from Sourav: Dalmiya
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2006, 03:18:10 PM »

I don't expect loyalty from Sourav: Dalmiya

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1043008

KOLKATA: Cricket Association of Bengal (CAB) president Jagmohan Dalmiya on Friday dismissed Sourav Ganguly's e-mail that levelled serious charges against his group saying that he did not expect loyalty as he was no more the BCCI chief.

"I am no longer in BCCI. I have nothing to give. So, I do not expect loyalty from him," Dalmiya said shortly after Ganguly's e-mail was made public by CAB dissidents.

Dalmiya, however, refused to give a detailed reaction saying, "the e-mail has not been addressed to me, it is for the CAB to react."
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ramshorns

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2006, 03:27:41 PM »

All jokes aside.  When the smoke clears and the dust settles down somewhere along the line Sourav Ganguly will get another chance.  Just when and where is very difficult to say.  However this time around it will be a big problem for SG to stick around unless he really performs for the following reasons.

1) He will never be the skipper again.  So the lifeline the captaincy provides is gone. 

2) Once he is given a chance 2-3 failures and the pressure mounts on him.  If the team loses in that process, I think it will be curtains.

3) The biggest worrying factor.  If the likes of Raina really cement their place with some good performances I think it will be even more difficult for him to break through into the 11.

4) This whole JD/SG/GC saga definitely has taken a lot of toll on him physically and mentally.  That has to factored in as well.   Also remember he is 34 years already.

5) Plus to this point in the last 2 months SG with the bat has been a diappointment with his stint with Northants.  Few spurts of promising starts followed by dismissals in the 20-20's.   Ofcourse he bowled well.  He did not get off to a good start in the 4 day games.  His time is almost up in the county and I think his only chance is the domestics at home.  Here he will be competing directly with all the prospects and that would be a real challenge.  VVS/Rao/Mujamdar/Gambhir/Badani/Chopra/Badri/Jaffer/Bunch of U-19's are all there as well to prove and make their way back into various forms of the game.  Will be very interesting.

6) All and all as things stand cricket wise he has a little catching up to do.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 04:12:42 PM by ramshorns »
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kban1

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2006, 03:57:02 PM »

The World according to CP is making statements without basis in facts, combining and collating different events, etc etc --anything to make SG look bad.

Quote
No JD liking him isnt his fault BUT

Him picking a dinner with a politician over a domestic game is his fault

Wrong, he did not skip a game for dinner with a politician. Check your timelines.

Wrong, he did not pick the dinner. An open interview by Pawar on TV followed by a confirmation to the press by IS Bindra, Pawar's de facto deputy made it clear that Pawar would like to speak with SG, the ball is in SG's court now.

SG responded --You do not turn down an offer from BCCI chief who also happens to be an Union Cabonet Minister.

We have discussed this ad infinitum in the past, frankly I am surprised that you non chalantly make such statements.


Quote
Not scoring any runs and still wanting to be selected is his fault

Every one wants to be selected. Cut the BS -- when is wanting to be selected (a thought in a person's mind) a sin ?

Quote
Sending emails supporting politicians and playing politics with them is his fault.


Again this issue has been dissected by ravi and ruchir and it has been explained quite clearly by both why he has no choice in this matter.

Read the news reports -- CM of WB is trying to shore up the agri division in WB and Pawar's help is likely to be forthcoming if JD is out of the CAB picture. SG has been asked to lend support and he has because he is caught in the middle while big time politicians (WB CM, Pawar, JD) are playing the political game with him as a pawn.

And if he really wanted to play politics, would he not have asked his dad to run against JD -- this was the Pawar group's offer to his dad. You support us, your son gets in the team (I even posted this newsstory on this DG).

SG is in a position where he is damned if he says no and damned if he says yes.

Quote
Holding on to his position past his use by date is his fault!

Yeah, another argument which ignores realities. After the GC talk in Zim, SG was on record saying that as captain the ZIm series was his last. Once the email was sent and leaked, SG decided not to resign.

And besides, isn't this the nature of sports ? Most of these people are where they are because they have an innate belief in their abilities, a heightened confidence. Which is why some great players have had to be releived of captaincy such as IT Botham. Look at the scores of boxers who make comebacks ignoring all other advice and get pounded in their old age ?

Sportsmen's confidence and belief are together their salvation and bete-noire rolled into one.

And I find it hard to believe you are not aware of this, its just that you need another stick to beat SG with.

Quote
Not running between the wickets prperly, not fielding well is his fault!


Yeah its his fault. And so --how is this relevant to the comment you made ?

Seriously, CP, every post ranting against the same guy is just taking things a tad too far.
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jaat69

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2006, 04:00:54 PM »

kban...why bother to take a clown seriously?!
Leave him, as he is in his tortured world.
Any real life meeting with this guy would have given me a constipation! ;D
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JJ

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2006, 04:04:04 PM »

Don;t know about you, guys - but I feel SG would have been better off keeping quiet on this matter.
Getting into this sort of political game only sullies his reputation - I mean, he comes across as having used
JD when things were good and now trying to change camps so he can get a place in the team... this may not be the case ..
but by this email to his bro - it can give that impression.

His county run has been pretty abysmal .. he should focus on improving that rather than get into needless politics ...

my 2 paise ...
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jaat69

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2006, 04:07:54 PM »

Don;t know about you, guys - but I feel SG would have been better off keeping quiet on this matter.
Getting into this sort of political game only sullies his reputation - I mean, he comes across as having used
JD when things were good and now trying to change camps so he can get a place in the team... this may not be the case ..
but by this email to his bro - it can give that impression.

His county run has been pretty abysmal .. he should focus on improving that rather than get into needless politics ...

my 2 paise ...

thats a seperate issue.
the main concern is about hate mongering. whom is it benefitting here by the way?
regarding county performances, well, Northant's coach Keppler Wessels have categorically mentioned his liking for Ganguly as an overseas player for the current season and the next one.
btw...I have sufficient confidence on SG's intelligence to believe that whatever he has done is correct.
Whether or not that gives him another shot in the Indian team, doesn't matter to me.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 04:09:58 PM by jaat69 »
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kban1

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2006, 04:20:24 PM »

JJ:

Quote
Don;t know about you, guys - but I feel SG would have been better off keeping quiet on this matter.
Getting into this sort of political game only sullies his reputation - I mean, he comes across as having used
JD when things were good and now trying to change camps so he can get a place in the team... this may not be the case ..
but by this email to his bro - it can give that impression.

His county run has been pretty abysmal .. he should focus on improving that rather than get into needless politics ...

my 2 paise ...

very good points except

1) he sent an email which was made public. He did not make public statements.

2) It does not look like he has a viable option to not pick a side.

If he says nothing, then he loses the support of the CM in the state that he lives in (dont forget, he has a huge family business which has to still keep functioning in the state). He also ensures that Pawar led BCCI will shun him indefinitely.

If he says something, he is perceived as being a turncoat vis-a -vis JD (not knowing what their actual dynamics have been in these last several months).

Really he cannot be non committal --he is caught between a rock and a hard place and he has to sway to one side.

I just hope he scores enough runs to force selection. That would make me happy although given the past, that is not a guarantee for selection.
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ruchir

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2006, 04:21:48 PM »

btw...I have sufficient confidence on SG's intelligence to believe that whatever he has done is correct.
Whether or not that gives him another shot in the Indian team, doesn't matter to me.

Oh good....

I too have sufficient confidence that whatever RD/GC/KM have done is correct.
Whether that gives SG another shot in the Indian Team, doesn't matter to me.
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JJ

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2006, 04:22:33 PM »

Don;t know about you, guys - but I feel SG would have been better off keeping quiet on this matter.
Getting into this sort of political game only sullies his reputation - I mean, he comes across as having used
JD when things were good and now trying to change camps so he can get a place in the team... this may not be the case ..
but by this email to his bro - it can give that impression.

His county run has been pretty abysmal .. he should focus on improving that rather than get into needless politics ...

my 2 paise ...

thats a seperate issue.
the main concern is about hate mongering. whom is it benefitting here by the way?
** I definitely don't endorse hate mongering and my post is testimony to that
regarding county performances, well, Northant's coach Keppler Wessels have categorically mentioned his liking for Ganguly as an overseas player for the current season and the next one.
**  What does that have to do with SG's performance ?? - it does not matter one zit what Wessels said - all that matters is that SG's numbers
have not been good

btw...I have sufficient confidence on SG's intelligence to believe that whatever he has done is correct.
** Intelligence ?? He is treading dangerous waters here and by no means is taking sides here an intelligent move.
I think there could be one of 2 reasons for SG"S email
1. Emotional outburst
2. Switch camps from JD to Powar

Whether or not that gives him another shot in the Indian team, doesn't matter to me.
**
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JJ

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2006, 04:25:53 PM »

JJ:

Quote
Don;t know about you, guys - but I feel SG would have been better off keeping quiet on this matter.
Getting into this sort of political game only sullies his reputation - I mean, he comes across as having used
JD when things were good and now trying to change camps so he can get a place in the team... this may not be the case ..
but by this email to his bro - it can give that impression.

His county run has been pretty abysmal .. he should focus on improving that rather than get into needless politics ...

my 2 paise ...

very good points except

1) he sent an email which was made public. He did not make public statements.
** There is no way that email would have been made public without SG's permission !!
So it is definitely a public statement ...

2) It does not look like he has a viable option to not pick a side.
** Beg to differ - I think he does have a viable option - that is - MAKE RUNS !!

If he says nothing, then he loses the support of the CM in the state that he lives in (dont forget, he has a huge family business which has to still keep functioning in the state). He also ensures that Pawar led BCCI will shun him indefinitely.

If he says something, he is perceived as being a turncoat vis-a -vis JD (not knowing what their actual dynamics have been in these last several months).

Really he cannot be non committal --he is caught between a rock and a hard place and he has to sway to one side.
** Kban: I really feel that by saying NOTHING and letting his BAT do the talking , SG would heva come out with his dignity intact

I just hope he scores enough runs to force selection. That would make me happy although given the past, that is not a guarantee for selection.
** Yup
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jaat69

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2006, 04:27:30 PM »

btw...I have sufficient confidence on SG's intelligence to believe that whatever he has done is correct.
Whether or not that gives him another shot in the Indian team, doesn't matter to me.

Oh good....

I too have sufficient confidence that whatever RD/GC/KM have done is correct.
Whether that gives SG another shot in the Indian Team, doesn't matter to me.

did we mention RD/GC over here by any chance?
and why bother to mention the petty thief KM!? ;D
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ruchir

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2006, 04:38:19 PM »

1) he sent an email which was made public. He did not make public statements.

KBAN: Do you seriously think that SG sent that email to his brother thinking that it will remain between him and his brother??? If so, his brother should be taken to task by SG himself. SG's brother has broken SG's trust by leaking the email.

If not, then it means that SG wrote that email with an intention of it becoming public. However, instead of sending it to the Police Commissioner himself, he chose the round-about way to sending it to his brother, who forwarded it to the commissioner, who made it public.

If SG wanted his email to remain secret, he would have told his brother to not forward it to anyone. Of course, he chose to not let it be a secret and let it become public in a different way.

Does it not have the smack of a politics?

If he wanted to make his views public AND take full responsibility of his views, he could have sent the email directly to the commissioner. That would have told the world that SG is openly backing him, as the Bengal CM wants SG to do.

But, SG does not do that. He tries to save his image and yet do what Bengal CM wants him to do. THAT is what makes him look suspicious -- as JJ is pointing out.

Imagine him writing an email to the commissioner saying --

"Dear Mr. Commissioner, per my conversations with the CM, I am extending my support to you for your participation in the CAB elections. I hope you will clean the mess and bring a fresh and just administration with you."

How would this email sound?? Completely non-political, yet extending support to the Commissioner. Doing what the CM wants him to do, yet maintaining his dignity by making it clear at the outset that he is doing so because the CM is asking him to do it.

My point is that BECAUSE SG is trying to save his image by trying to hide his views and yet having to make them public, he is coming out as a suspicious character. The moment he makes it clear that he is supporting the commissioner because CM is asking him to, he will be in the clear.
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ruchir

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2006, 04:43:51 PM »

did we mention RD/GC over here by any chance?
and why bother to mention the petty thief KM!? ;D

My intention was to tell you how ridiculous your statement looked.

You said that you had confidence that whatever SG was doing was correct. So, I said that if that is a good logic, then SG being out of the team is also the right thing. Why? Because RD/GC/KM are doing the right thing (just like SG). 'Cause how can you prove that SG has more intelligence than these 3?
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ramshorns

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2006, 04:49:33 PM »

1) he sent an email which was made public. He did not make public statements.

KBAN: Do you seriously think that SG sent that email to his brother thinking that it will remain between him and his brother??? If so, his brother should be taken to task by SG himself. SG's brother has broken SG's trust by leaking the email.

If not, then it means that SG wrote that email with an intention of it becoming public. However, instead of sending it to the Police Commissioner himself, he chose the round-about way to sending it to his brother, who forwarded it to the commissioner, who made it public.

If SG wanted his email to remain secret, he would have told his brother to not forward it to anyone. Of course, he chose to not let it be a secret and let it become public in a different way.

Does it not have the smack of a politics?

If he wanted to make his views public AND take full responsibility of his views, he could have sent the email directly to the commissioner. That would have told the world that SG is openly backing him, as the Bengal CM wants SG to do.

But, SG does not do that. He tries to save his image and yet do what Bengal CM wants him to do. THAT is what makes him look suspicious -- as JJ is pointing out.

Imagine him writing an email to the commissioner saying --

"Dear Mr. Commissioner, per my conversations with the CM, I am extending my support to you for your participation in the CAB elections. I hope you will clean the mess and bring a fresh and just administration with you."

How would this email sound?? Completely non-political, yet extending support to the Commissioner. Doing what the CM wants him to do, yet maintaining his dignity by making it clear at the outset that he is doing so because the CM is asking him to do it.

My point is that BECAUSE SG is trying to save his image by trying to hide his views and yet having to make them public, he is coming out as a suspicious character. The moment he makes it clear that he is supporting the commissioner because CM is asking him to, he will be in the clear.
Read Kban1/ruchir's and others posts on the issue.  I again think SG is not playing it right.  He is again getting into a situation where a lot of damage control will need to be done, later.  I think the smart way for SG to do is everything backstage and keep away from the public eye except for his cricket.  One would think he would have learnt the hard way the whole SG/GC e-mail leak episode and the price he had to pay.  Obviously not IMO.  I would have played my cards a little differently this time around.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 04:56:54 PM by ramshorns »
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kban1

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2006, 04:56:36 PM »

JJ:

Quote
he sent an email which was made public. He did not make public statements.
** There is no way that email would have been made public without SG's permission !!
So it is definitely a public statement ...

He may have allowed it but we do not know that to say it is definitely a public statement. Even GC's email was leaked and GC hardly intended for that to happen. So have to disagree there.

Quote
2) It does not look like he has a viable option to not pick a side.
** Beg to differ - I think he does have a viable option - that is - MAKE RUNS !!

and

Quote
Really he cannot be non committal --he is caught between a rock and a hard place and he has to sway to one side.
** Kban: I really feel that by saying NOTHING and letting his BAT do the talking , SG would heva come out with his dignity intact


Again we agree on the bat doing the talking. But that does not resolve the dilemma where he is a political pawn between several poiltically influential parties.

The runs, whether they come or not, will not extricate him from this -- too many issues outside of cricket here
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ramshorns

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2006, 05:02:02 PM »

JJ:

Quote
he sent an email which was made public. He did not make public statements.
** There is no way that email would have been made public without SG's permission !!
So it is definitely a public statement ...

He may have allowed it but we do not know that to say it is definitely a public statement. Even GC's email was leaked and GC hardly intended for that to happen. So have to disagree there.

Quote
2) It does not look like he has a viable option to not pick a side.
** Beg to differ - I think he does have a viable option - that is - MAKE RUNS !!

and

Quote
Really he cannot be non committal --he is caught between a rock and a hard place and he has to sway to one side.
** Kban: I really feel that by saying NOTHING and letting his BAT do the talking , SG would heva come out with his dignity intact


Again we agree on the bat doing the talking. But that does not resolve the dilemma where he is a political pawn between several poiltically influential parties.

The runs, whether they come or not, will not extricate him from this -- too many issues outside of cricket here

But Kban1 one thing that will be very hard to ignore is if SG scored the runs by the tons.  Then the pressure shifts squarely back to the team management.  Remember VVS of 1999-2000, 10 100's in as many matches.  I am not saying SG need to score that many but any runs have dried up at this point.  And that is very frustrating to see for SG fans and add to that this new controversy brewing up.  SG is hardly helping matters here and making it hard on himself.  I am telling you he will realize all this later.
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kban1

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2006, 05:05:18 PM »

ruchir:

I am not discounting either side but I cannot jump to the conclusion that he sent it to his brother with the intention of it being made public.

he might have well meant that --in which case he would have been better advised to treat it differently.

But then again he might not have.

Lets wait for more info -- Thats all I am saying

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kban1

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2006, 05:07:10 PM »

rams:

Agree. I made that point before. He needs runs more than anything.


This is a nuisance he is getting dragged into but he does not have  a choice here
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JJ

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2006, 05:08:18 PM »

JJ:

Quote
he sent an email which was made public. He did not make public statements.
** There is no way that email would have been made public without SG's permission !!
So it is definitely a public statement ...

He may have allowed it but we do not know that to say it is definitely a public statement. Even GC's email was leaked and GC hardly intended for that to happen. So have to disagree there.
** Come on man ... if he allowed it - then he 's ok with making it public, right ?
There is no way this can be compared with GC email leak. 
This is just a roundabout way that SG chose to put forward his thoughts - lets not kid ourselves that he did not intend for it to be public.


Quote
2) It does not look like he has a viable option to not pick a side.
** Beg to differ - I think he does have a viable option - that is - MAKE RUNS !!

and

Quote
Really he cannot be non committal --he is caught between a rock and a hard place and he has to sway to one side.
** Kban: I really feel that by saying NOTHING and letting his BAT do the talking , SG would heva come out with his dignity intact


Again we agree on the bat doing the talking. But that does not resolve the dilemma where he is a political pawn between several poiltically influential parties.

The runs, whether they come or not, will not extricate him from this -- too many issues outside of cricket here

** This is where we fundamentally differ - SG's exclusion has a lot to do with his making runs - there is NO WAY he could have
kicked out the way he was if he had decent runs under his belt.  That is not to say that his ouster was not political - sure it was - but his lack of runs/performance contributed big-time.
Sure, he is a political pawn now - but one cannot deny that he used politics to his advantage when he could (JD) .. and maybe thats ok - just as long as he realizes that he used JD and JD used him ... so it evens out -- politics is like that .. which is why I feel he shd have steered clear from this mess.



« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 05:19:09 PM by JJ »
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ramshorns

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2006, 05:11:48 PM »

rams:

Agree. I made that point before. He needs runs more than anything.


This is a nuisance he is getting dragged into but he does not have  a choice here

I am not sure Kban1.  I personally feel the people around him are not advising him right.  Probably SG is dragged into this but there are better ways to handle this than writing an e-mail.  After burning his hand with the e-mail issue once one would think that SG would have taken secrets ways to take care of things this time around.
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ThankYouChappel

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2006, 05:14:31 PM »

This is sleezy..
KBAN's defense of SG here regarding that he didnt want this email to be public, is UTTER NONSENSE. Didnt expect such silly arguments from you KBAN.

Anyway, so SG is no use to JD and JD is no use to SG, it eventually has come to that.. wow..

well these two guys are capable of anything.. and kind of loooooooooose canon SG has become these days, I would not want him even at a birthday party of a Indian Team member, leave alone sharing the dressing room..

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jaat69

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2006, 05:20:14 PM »

did we mention RD/GC over here by any chance?
and why bother to mention the petty thief KM!? ;D

My intention was to tell you how ridiculous your statement looked.

You said that you had confidence that whatever SG was doing was correct. So, I said that if that is a good logic, then SG being out of the team is also the right thing. Why? Because RD/GC/KM are doing the right thing (just like SG). 'Cause how can you prove that SG has more intelligence than these 3?

aunty ji, who has questioned your logic? I only said that SG being in an unique situation, must have taken a decision which is appropriate for him.
After all, besides us, he has a whole array of well-wishers, including his family. So I am certain, he knows what he is doing.
Is there any point in discussing issues which we are not clear about?
I am not even certain, what is actually happenning! Lets not start hate-mongering once again.
I have been SG's fan and will remain so, whether or not he plays for the Indian team again.
Anybody, showing him disrespect will get his share of mouth-full from me.
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ruchir

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2006, 05:36:59 PM »

Is there any point in discussing issues which we are not clear about?

What is not so clear about the issue??


I am not even certain, what is actually happenning! Lets not start hate-mongering once again.

On this particular issue, SG getting involved with CAB elections, I have been siding with SG all along (I surprised even myself!!). I have been saying consistently that he is being used by Bengal CM. So how come I am starting the hate-mongering?


I have been SG's fan and will remain so, whether or not he plays for the Indian team again.

Good for you. That's what true fans do.


Anybody, showing him disrespect will get his share of mouth-full from me.

Yeah baby, that's more like it.... But would you mind telling me exactly what is your mouth is full of? I didn't do anything yet.  ;D ;D
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2006, 05:44:37 PM »

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/india/content/current/story/254107.html

Former captain releases email through his brother

Ganguly hits out at Dalmiya

PTI

July 21, 2006

In a reversal of sorts, Sourav Ganguly has launched an attack against his long-time mentor Jagmohan Dalmiya, accusing the former cricket board chief of "playing" with his career.

Ganguly, who lost his place in the Indian team after a spat with Greg Chappell, the coach, chose the upcoming presidential elections for the Cricket Association of Bengal (CAB) to hit out at Dalmiya, facing a challenge for the post from Prasun Mukherkjee, the Police Commissioner.

Currently playing county cricket for Northamptonshire, Ganguly, trying to make a comeback into the national team, sent an email to his brother Snehashish supporting Mukherjee. The email was released by Mukherjee at a press conference in Kolkata. Ganguly said in the email: "People who leak e-mails and sacrifice players' careers should be heavily punished. There are people in CAB who are playing with players' careers to suit them. They should not be allowed to go scot-free as it takes years of hard work to reach a certain level in sports."

Complaining of unethical practices in the CAB, Ganguly also expressed satisfaction at the stand taken by the West Bengal chief minister, Buddhadev Bhattacharjee, who openly said that Dalmiya should stay away from the CAB presidential race. "I am happy that the Chief Minister and people concerned are addressing the issues and working towards the right path," Ganguly wrote.

Ganguly's email, which also accused Dalmiya of leaking Chappell's controversial email to the board in September last year, comes as a major boost to the dissident faction ahead of the polls on July 30. Chappell's email, which contained damning criticism of Ganguly, created a furore after its contents appeared in a Bengali daily in the midst of the board's Annual General Meeting.

Ganguly's outburst is the latest twist in the drama for control of the CAB, where Dalmiya is facing a determined challenge from dissidents being backed by Bhattacharjee and other former Ranji Trophy cricketers from Bengal. Ganguly's message in support of the police chief comes a day after Subhas Chakraborty, the West Bengal sports minister known to be soft on Dalmiya, admitted his failure to dissuade him from contesting the elections. Chakraborty's statement had been interpreted as a confirmation that Dalmiya was prepared to fight it out in the polls.

Chakraborty, who had been directed by the chief minister to convey his stand on the CAB polls to Dalmiya, also said that his attempts for a compromise between the two factions had not borne fruit. The police commissioner had filed his nomination yesterday, while his close lieutenant and former Bengal cricketer Raja Venkat threw his hat in the ring for one of the two joint secretaries' posts during the day, which also saw Dalmiya filing his nomination for the top post.

PTI

--

it is pretty clear that he is taking a public stand. good luck with that
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Jai

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2006, 05:46:38 PM »

Is there any point in discussing issues which we are not clear about?

What is not so clear about the issue??


I am not even certain, what is actually happenning! Lets not start hate-mongering once again.

On this particular issue, SG getting involved with CAB elections, I have been siding with SG all along (I surprised even myself!!). I have been saying consistently that he is being used by Bengal CM. So how come I am starting the hate-mongering?


I have been SG's fan and will remain so, whether or not he plays for the Indian team again.

Good for you. That's what true fans do.


Anybody, showing him disrespect will get his share of mouth-full from me.

Yeah baby, that's more like it.... But would you mind telling me exactly what is your mouth is full of? I didn't do anything yet.  ;D ;D

ROFL !!!
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Jai

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2006, 05:56:58 PM »

rams:

Agree. I made that point before. He needs runs more than anything.


This is a nuisance he is getting dragged into but he does not have  a choice here

I am not sure Kban1.  I personally feel the people around him are not advising him right.  Probably SG is dragged into this but there are better ways to handle this than writing an e-mail.  After burning his hand with the e-mail issue once one would think that SG would have taken secrets ways to take care of things this time around.

This email was publicly declared by Mr. Mukherjee at a press conference. So there's no question of burning his fingers with this. He did it openly. It was not supposed to be secret as his brother himself was involved in it. And let's not confuse it with the other email. SG didn't burn his hand with the 'other' email on his own accord. Many of us in the past believed what SG is himself telling us now regarding that email and who leaked it. Regarding your opinion about there's a better way to handle this than writing an email, let's SG decide that. Other than focussing on his cricket part which we all agree, how to handle this issue without the email will be a serious debate amongst us I am sure. So let's not say that sending the email was wrong on SG's part. Other means would have been viewed as wrong by other people too.
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ramshorns

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2006, 06:04:02 PM »

rams:

Agree. I made that point before. He needs runs more than anything.


This is a nuisance he is getting dragged into but he does not have  a choice here

I am not sure Kban1.  I personally feel the people around him are not advising him right.  Probably SG is dragged into this but there are better ways to handle this than writing an e-mail.  After burning his hand with the e-mail issue once one would think that SG would have taken secrets ways to take care of things this time around.

This email was publicly declared by Mr. Mukherjee at a press conference. So there's no question of burning his fingers with this. He did it openly. It was not supposed to be secret as his brother himself was involved in it. And let's not confuse it with the other email. SG didn't burn his hand with the 'other' email on his own accord. Many of us in the past believed what SG is himself telling us now regarding that email and who leaked it. Regarding your opinion about there's a better way to handle this than writing an email, let's SG decide that. Other than focussing on his cricket part which we all agree, how to handle this issue without the email will be a serious debate amongst us I am sure. So let's not say that sending the email was wrong on SG's part. Other means would have been viewed as wrong by other people too.
Just curious as to why you want things to be released through third parties.  One would think if want to take a stand and say something you would do that directly.  This is where things get complicated when you involve others.  It is again my opinion.  I also feel in the long run it is going to hurt him.
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JJ

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2006, 06:07:28 PM »

rams:

Agree. I made that point before. He needs runs more than anything.


This is a nuisance he is getting dragged into but he does not have  a choice here

I am not sure Kban1.  I personally feel the people around him are not advising him right.  Probably SG is dragged into this but there are better ways to handle this than writing an e-mail.  After burning his hand with the e-mail issue once one would think that SG would have taken secrets ways to take care of things this time around.

This email was publicly declared by Mr. Mukherjee at a press conference. So there's no question of burning his fingers with this. He did it openly. It was not supposed to be secret as his brother himself was involved in it. And let's not confuse it with the other email. SG didn't burn his hand with the 'other' email on his own accord. Many of us in the past believed what SG is himself telling us now regarding that email and who leaked it. Regarding your opinion about there's a better way to handle this than writing an email, let's SG decide that. Other than focussing on his cricket part which we all agree, how to handle this issue without the email will be a serious debate amongst us I am sure. So let's not say that sending the email was wrong on SG's part. Other means would have been viewed as wrong by other people too.
Just curious as to why you want things to be released through third parties.  One would think if want to take a stand and say something you would do that directly.  This is where things get complicated when you involve others.  It is again my opinion.  I also feel in the long run it is going to hurt him.

Agree totally Ramshorns.
IMO -  SG comes across a spolit crybaby in this email who's ok with using politics when it suits
him and can't take the heat when its turnsed against him.

.. he should have resisted  sending it .. oh well - this is only going to hurt him.
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Cover Point

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2006, 06:12:21 PM »

Ofcourse it is going to hurt him. Aag se kheloge to ... etc etc

But for him I think it is the best option. He has figured it out that his chances of making it to the team on his own accord or based on performance are zero to none! This is his last resort. Its a good resort ... politically speaking. Just like in real dirty politics you need to know the right time to dump the losing party and jump to the winning one, he has done the same here. Now if it works he will get into the team as a "payment". If it does not work for some reason then nothing is lost.

There is a saying that is too impolite for this DG. I am putting it in white Hilite the below three lines if you want to read it. WARNING. OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE USED. If you are having dinner at Ruchir's place please dont hi-lite!

They say on double speak
Duniya Badi Bhen Ki Lodi hai
Bandti Gadhi hai aur kehti Ghodi hai!
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Jai

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2006, 06:23:59 PM »

rams:

Agree. I made that point before. He needs runs more than anything.


This is a nuisance he is getting dragged into but he does not have  a choice here

I am not sure Kban1.  I personally feel the people around him are not advising him right.  Probably SG is dragged into this but there are better ways to handle this than writing an e-mail.  After burning his hand with the e-mail issue once one would think that SG would have taken secrets ways to take care of things this time around.

This email was publicly declared by Mr. Mukherjee at a press conference. So there's no question of burning his fingers with this. He did it openly. It was not supposed to be secret as his brother himself was involved in it. And let's not confuse it with the other email. SG didn't burn his hand with the 'other' email on his own accord. Many of us in the past believed what SG is himself telling us now regarding that email and who leaked it. Regarding your opinion about there's a better way to handle this than writing an email, let's SG decide that. Other than focussing on his cricket part which we all agree, how to handle this issue without the email will be a serious debate amongst us I am sure. So let's not say that sending the email was wrong on SG's part. Other means would have been viewed as wrong by other people too.
Just curious as to why you want things to be released through third parties.  One would think if want to take a stand and say something you would do that directly.  This is where things get complicated when you involve others.  It is again my opinion.  I also feel in the long run it is going to hurt him.

What's the problem if he sends the email and supports Mr. Mukherjee and also mentions the misgivings of JD in it? The fact that he's supporting Mr. Mukherjee is good enough. The stand is regarding his support for Mr. Mukherjee. If you call it 'using third party', then be it. I don't see any issue here. He's clearly lending his support for Mr. Mukherjee. If you call it 'involving others', then it can't be helped. Mr. Mukherjee is fighting the election against JD and SG is supporting him. It's that simple really. Why would SG directly take it up with JD? And even if he does that, do you think certain people would stop calling him names like crybabies etc.? As a lot of people said, it's a lose-lose situation for anyways. The SG-bashers will not spare him anyway. So better do what he thinks is the right thing to do. About whether it'll hurt him in the long run, hasn't he suffered enough already? How worse can it get?
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ramshorns

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Re: New Can of Worms from Ganguly
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2006, 06:27:54 PM »

rams:

Agree. I made that point before. He needs runs more than anything.


This is a nuisance he is getting dragged into but he does not have  a choice here

I am not sure Kban1.  I personally feel the people around him are not advising him right.  Probably SG is dragged into this but there are better ways to handle this than writing an e-mail.  After burning his hand with the e-mail issue once one would think that SG would have taken secrets ways to take care of things this time around.

This email was publicly declared by Mr. Mukherjee at a press conference. So there's no question of burning his fingers with this. He did it openly. It was not supposed to be secret as his brother himself was involved in it. And let's not confuse it with the other email. SG didn't burn his hand with the 'other' email on his own accord. Many of us in the past believed what SG is himself telling us now regarding that email and who leaked it. Regarding your opinion about there's a better way to handle this than writing an email, let's SG decide that. Other than focussing on his cricket part which we all agree, how to handle this issue without the email will be a serious debate amongst us I am sure. So let's not say that sending the email was wrong on SG's part. Other means would have been viewed as wrong by other people too.
Just curious as to why you want things to be released through third parties.  One would think if want to take a stand and say something you would do that directly.  This is where things get complicated when you involve others.  It is again my opinion.  I also feel in the long run it is going to hurt him.

What's the problem if he sends the email and supports Mr. Mukherjee and also mentions the misgivings of JD in it? The fact that he's supporting Mr. Mukherjee is good enough. The stand is regarding his support for Mr. Mukherjee. If you call it 'using third party', then be it. I don't see any issue here. He's clearly lending his support for Mr. Mukherjee. If you call it 'involving others', then it can't be helped. Mr. Mukherjee is fighting the election against JD and SG is supporting him. It's that simple really. Why would SG directly take it up with JD? And even if he does that, do you think certain people would stop calling him names like crybabies etc.? As a lot of people said, it's a lose-lose situation for anyways. The SG-bashers will not spare him anyway. So better do what he thinks is the right thing to do. About whether it'll hurt him in the long run, hasn't he suffered enough already? How worse can it get?
Jai:Something called legacy is what I had in mind (beyond cricket), when I said it hurts SG in the long run.  Ofcourse we have differing views on the issue.  No harm in it.
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