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22 Yards

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Have we found an answer to this question??
« on: April 29, 2006, 07:41:18 PM »

Let me introduce myself to the forum a little. I came to know about this group a while ago through my nephew. When I checked out this forum, I was completely surprised to see the intensified intelligent conversations which is a rarity. So, I thought may be jump in and share my old time thoughts a bit here. (To see how we do the posting and all that stuff, I posted an article of Jones earlier today)

Raju Bharatan, a while ago, sometime during last year during our ZIM tour said this. I dont have his quote but he said something like this. "Its easy to sack Sourav, break with VVS, sneak past Anil, dump Zaheer. But straightaway, how you can find substitutes for these proven performers. We are doing the same mistake as we did with Sourav, with Greg. Putting all eggs in one basket. World Cup is not too far. If a team is sick at heart, youth can be no medicine"

So after that we watched India do a 6-1,4-1,2-2 and 6-1 to their opponents, is it safe for us to assume Raju's question has been answered? Or we have to wait for WI and SA? What if something goes against us, would we have enough time for the World Cup? So would it been fine to keep the above mentioned players in the circle? The same question that bothered Aussies in the late 80's.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2006, 10:43:35 PM by 22 Yards »
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2006, 07:52:49 PM »

The problem ( I hope there is none!), I feel, is that GC thinks, with him around, whats the big need of other super-stars?!
A egoistic super-star like GC normally believes that he can do with raw youth and talent, with him providing the experience!
Lets hope, this concoction works for India! :)

As for me, I miss India's Golden brigade...SG, SRT, RD, VVS, AK..........although Dravid is still there and a few others are just about hanging around. SG has been sadly shoved into the dark corner.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2006, 08:17:13 PM by Blwe_torch »
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22 Yards

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2006, 08:04:41 PM »

Blwe_torch,
Even if we ignore the super star status of the individuals involved, would youth alone can bring us the WC and go further. If we observe all the World Cups, battle hardened noses like Vivian,Allan,Jones,Graham,Imran,Sachin(twice or thrice),Steve,Aravind, Ricky etc. were the ones who helped their teams in succeeding/succeeding to a level at the biggest stage. If we go by history, we would most likely put pressure on Sachin. Will he able to repeat the magic once again at this point? Or On a positive note, will the youngsters (now) become slightly experienced by that time?
Sourav and John did the same mistake by putting emphasis on youth. All they got was Zaheer bowling everywhere in the Final.
I read one of the discussions earlier today (thats a pretty long one) about Venkat Sai. His case relates to the same question.
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2006, 08:15:47 PM »

I agree, in the name of inducting youth we have short-changed quite a few careers of great players.
Unfortunately, we can just watch and debate. And hope, that things go right for India!

When Juergen Klinsmann, the German coach prefers Jens Lehmann over Oliver Kahn, I can smell a formula for success. But when GC does the same with SG ( my favorite player), my sentiments are different!
Are we clouded by prejudice...or is it that GC is clouded by prejudice?! :)
Only time will tell.
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22 Yards

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2006, 08:44:10 PM »

Blwe_torch,
Sourav's case is a slightly different one. I was priviliged to meet him twice so that will make my opinion partial. But whatever route Greg has taken, he has to deal with it. I think Sourav's oneday and test credentials were mixed for some pure non cricketing reason. Keeping Sourav aside, what bothers me is the cases of Venkat Sai and Anil. Having said that, I am pretty sure Greg knows what he is doing. Ofcourse he was one of the Aussie selectors who went against traditional selections and made Aussies what they have been. I hope there is some valid reason for him ignoring somethings he said in his book "Making of Champions".But as you said, lets hope for the better.
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2006, 08:54:02 PM »

To introduce fresh blood in a system........to eradicate old ways and value.......to get rid of 'cancer'..( chop it off incase of gangrene)..........all the above is one way of achieving success.
Everyone knows this, and it is not as if, GC is showing us the way.
But what I am watching with interest is that GC is going abt doing this......
Well, that takes some doing no doubt!
In the process he has upset a whole lot of people, and if he doesn't succeed, he will make an ass of himself!
I am sure, he is very much aware of the down-side!
It is like the grand old man's Final Gamble!
Lets see...what comes through.
The problem is that the victims of this Grand Gamble won't get much time to recover, once He is done and over! :)
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prfsr

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2006, 09:07:08 PM »


I think an important question is -- if India wins the WC, will that make all of GC's moves correct? Conversely, if we do not have a good result, does that alone imply GC did many or all things wrong? In other words, to what extent does the ends (to be known in future) justify the (current) means?

-P
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ramshorns

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2006, 09:12:35 PM »

22 Yards:Welcome to this DG on behalf of everyone.  I liked the first few of your posts.  Hence I sent down a applause already for that.  Looking forward to good debates in the future.
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22 Yards

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2006, 09:14:32 PM »

Blwe_torch,
Very true indeed. To a person,like me, who has been a great admirer of Greg's batting and who puts Sourav in between David and Brian in grace, its really quite 'no way to decide' situation.
Prfsr,
Whatever the future holds for us, Greg or Sourav, it will be good as long as the people involved are taking calculating risks. Sometimes, ends wont justify the means but I am pretty sure, we,fans, will be in a position at that time to understand that.
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2006, 09:14:51 PM »

Ends need not justify classy means.
I was arguing in another thread on G R Vishwanath, about an innings of his in the 1979 WC...against WI...in which he played brilliantly but for a lost cause. That loss, I believe don't take the sheen away from his class.
But here GC' s ways are cutting short important careers, proven track-records, etc. His success or failure aside, what do we make of SG/VVS/AK's career?
Do  they have a right to justice?
Can we sacrifice them in the name of India's well-being following GC's belief?
Are GC's personal bias/agendas bigger than India's cause ( luckily, they are on the same direction as of now)?
What if GC's personal bias/agendas clash with India's interests? :)
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22 Yards

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2006, 09:16:46 PM »

Thank you Ramshorns and everyone else on this forum. I hope I can be of some help in giving my old thoughts to this energetic fan base :)
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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2006, 09:21:18 PM »

Blwe_torch,
If the team gains more than what they sacrifice, then its all well and good. But as you said, its a gamble. May be one of the biggest gambles cricket has seen.
I think it would have been a lot better if someone tells Anil and VVS, that they are only in one scheme of things (Anil must have got it already). VVS is a great test batsman. I hope these things don't affect his career.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2006, 09:24:11 PM by 22 Yards »
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Blwe_torch

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2006, 09:24:46 PM »

Blwe_torch,
If the team gains more than what they sacrifice, then its all well and good. But as you said, its a gamble. May be one of the biggest gambles cricket has seen

I have highlighted your phrase.....one of the biggest gambles cricket has seen.
Rings very ominous!
Unfortunately, I hope, one of my favorite players do not make it to the history book...thanks to this gamble! :)
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pieterSAN

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2006, 10:28:52 PM »

I had been enjoying the comments made by everyone until of course, people decided their points needed to emphasized with some superlatives.

BEFORE                        AFTER
V Sehwag                     V Sehwag
SR Tendulkar                 R Dravid
MS Dhoni                      MS Dhoni
S Ganguly                    Yvuraj Singh
R Dravid                       Y Venugpal Rao
Yuvraj Singh                 SK Raina
D Mongia                      IK Pathan
AB Agarkar                     R Powar
Harbhajan Singh             AB Agarkar
Z Khan                         Harbhajan Singh
A Nehra.                       S Sreesanth

(As you know Sachin is out because of injury and there are concerns that he may not be able to make the WC.Sehwag has also struggled of late. As a result, we have tried options like Uthappa)

Notice that VVS was never really a part of the picture - Kaif was favored to him. Kumble too was rarely a part of the ODI format for reason that are very similar. It has to be noted that in the last 20 ODIs Kumble averaged 48 as opposed to 30 for his career.

The only exclusion that seriously affects team experience is the exclusion of Ganguly. This is definitely a negative. The other possible exclusion is Tendulkar. It will be interesting to see if Ganguly comes into the picture if Tendulkar has to pull out.However, if Ganguly is the only one of these two not on the plane to West Indies, then it would be difficult to call it a gamble. I think it would be sensible.

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22 Yards

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2006, 10:43:06 PM »

Jiet,
As you said, VVS and Anil were never in our regular ODI set up. But the recent statements by these two players gives us an impression that they are still hopeful of making it to the ODI squad.Rightly so. As I said earlier, someone concerned should tell them what the management thinks about them and where they stand with respect to ODIs. Coming to Sourav, the reason why I think it is a gamble is, he was excluded from the team under highly sensitive situations. It seems like the cricketing base is divided into two parts. So whatever the futures holds for Indian team, Sourav and Greg, would have to pay the price. If India wins the WC, then the calls for Sourav's inclusion will deteriorate. Otherwise happens, Greg will be the one who has to decide on his future. Very high stakes involved in here. Only a few incidents like this happened before as far as my watching cricket is concerned.
Keeping everything aside, experience or no experience, the only person who has to be on the plane is Sachin. He deserves a World Cup medal for all his efforts.
By the way Jiet, your comparison is very interesting. I want to share my thoughts on that later today.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2006, 10:45:43 PM by 22 Yards »
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justforkix

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2006, 11:03:37 PM »

So whatever the futures holds for Indian team, Sourav and Greg, would have to pay the price. If India wins the WC, then the calls for Sourav's inclusion will deteriorate. Otherwise happens, Greg will be the one who has to decide on his future. Very high stakes involved in here.

I dunno. with or without SG, VVS, AK, I don't think we can't beat Australia. So, winning WC07 is a moot pt IMO  :) :).

The Aussie XI for WC07 possibly could be Hayden/Katich, Gilly, Punter, Martyn, Symonds, Hussey, Clarke, Warne/Hogg, Lee, Dizzy, McGrath. Another name for this squad is The Invincibles  :( :(. Good luck to whichever team wants to beat this XI ;)

Maybe ICC should introduce a new rule, which restricts teams to have only 4-5 match winners, and not 11 !!!!!
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fineleg

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2006, 11:13:16 PM »

While winning WC-07 would be more than thrilling, that is not the yardstick to measure the success of the ODI team - that is done over quite a few series and how we play in different conditions against diff teams. If we do well in WC (semis is prob min we expect, entering finals will be real good), and if we do well in other series, then IMO, our ODI team can be considered improved. That would be the yardstick to judge, not just one tournament.

Cannot decide based on just one match or one series.
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pieterSAN

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2006, 11:17:09 PM »

So whatever the futures holds for Indian team, Sourav and Greg, would have to pay the price. If India wins the WC, then the calls for Sourav's inclusion will deteriorate. Otherwise happens, Greg will be the one who has to decide on his future. Very high stakes involved in here.

I dunno. with or without SG, VVS, AK, I don't think we can't beat Australia. So, winning WC07 is a moot pt IMO  :) :).

The Aussie XI for WC07 possibly could be Hayden/Katich, Gilly, Punter, Martyn, Symonds, Hussey, Clarke, Warne/Hogg, Lee, Dizzy, McGrath. Another name for this squad is The Invincibles  :( :(. Good luck to whichever team wants to beat this XI ;)

Maybe ICC should introduce a new rule, which restricts teams to have only 4-5 match winners, and not 11 !!!!!

Excellent, Excellent post!

I said this a while back when Hussey started off with a bang. The Aussies are going to be real tough to beat. Having Symonds, Clarke and Hussey at 5,6,7 is simply mind-boggling. I mean it is just sick.
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flute202020

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2006, 11:40:34 PM »

While winning WC-07 would be more than thrilling, that is not the yardstick to measure the success of the ODI team - that is done over quite a few series and how we play in different conditions against diff teams. If we do well in WC (semis is prob min we expect, entering finals will be real good), and if we do well in other series, then IMO, our ODI team can be considered improved. That would be the yardstick to judge, not just one tournament.

Cannot decide based on just one match or one series.
spot on fineleg. applause for you. While this is the ideal way of evaluating the team, I don't think it will turn out this way. There are quite a few indignant fans of former stars like SG & VVS who are waiting and ready to draw blood if we fail to perform well in WC07. There is no benefit of doubt or evaluation after WC, if we don't get WC, "I told ya" statements will be all over the place on this DG.
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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2006, 11:56:07 PM »

justforkix,
I really believe this Indian ODI side can beat this Australian side. While its nice to applaud the opposition, but the same way it can be said about our team too. Symonds, Hussey and Clark are brilliant so is our own Dhoni,Yuvraj and Raina. For Adam Gilchrist, Ricky Ponting, Hayden we have our own Sachin,Rahul and Sehwag. I honestly believe our side can beat this Aussie side if we play the match tomorrow. No, this is not just some patriotic feeling but whats good about our team is the process is very well in place, they are doing the basics just right. And moreover, the Aussie ODI side has been declining in my opinion. Most of their recent ODI wins were unconvincing. Having said that,in my opinion, two players will decide which team will take the World Cup home, Irfan Pathan and Glenn McGrath.
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ramshorns

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2006, 11:58:57 PM »

While winning WC-07 would be more than thrilling, that is not the yardstick to measure the success of the ODI team - that is done over quite a few series and how we play in different conditions against diff teams. If we do well in WC (semis is prob min we expect, entering finals will be real good), and if we do well in other series, then IMO, our ODI team can be considered improved. That would be the yardstick to judge, not just one tournament.

Cannot decide based on just one match or one series.
spot on fineleg. applause for you. While this is the ideal way of evaluating the team, I don't think it will turn out this way. There are quite a few indignant fans of former stars like SG & VVS who are waiting and ready to draw blood if we fail to perform well in WC07. There is no benefit of doubt or evaluation after WC, if we don't get WC, "I told ya" statements will be all over the place on this DG.
And there are some idiotic fans who have no respect for the greats and a ZIP when it comes to cricketing IQ who know nothing about the game but are only obssesed at showing guys they do not like in poor light.  For them as long as their agendas and the players they like are in the team that satisfies them.  What is fair is not important to them.   Then accuse others of wanting TEAM India to fail when probably in their rotten minds have such thoughts.  It is disgraceful to call the fans of these greats indignant when the same fans go out of the way to support this new look team.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2006, 12:13:54 AM by ramshorns »
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flute202020

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2006, 12:26:41 AM »

While winning WC-07 would be more than thrilling, that is not the yardstick to measure the success of the ODI team - that is done over quite a few series and how we play in different conditions against diff teams. If we do well in WC (semis is prob min we expect, entering finals will be real good), and if we do well in other series, then IMO, our ODI team can be considered improved. That would be the yardstick to judge, not just one tournament.

Cannot decide based on just one match or one series.
spot on fineleg. applause for you. While this is the ideal way of evaluating the team, I don't think it will turn out this way. There are quite a few indignant fans of former stars like SG & VVS who are waiting and ready to draw blood if we fail to perform well in WC07. There is no benefit of doubt or evaluation after WC, if we don't get WC, "I told ya" statements will be all over the place on this DG.
And there are some idiotic fans who have no respect for the greats and a ZIP when it comes to cricketing IQ who know nothing about the game but are only obssesed at showing guys they do not like in poor light.  For them as long as their agendas and the players they like are in the team that satisfies them.  What is fair is not important to them.   Then accuse others of wanting TEAM India to fail when probably in their rotten minds have such thoughts.  It is dsgraceful to call the fans of these greats indignant when the same fans go out of the way to support this new look team.

Here is indignant meaning from Merriam Webster dictionary. I gave you a really long rope and you keep attacking me. Time will not and did not freeze with VVS or Gundappa, things changed a lot in cricket and to win ODIs, artistry and lazy drives is not going to help. Get this into your head and you might get out of your irritable mood. BTW, before attacking people, check the meaning of words and you will know who is being an idiot.

Main Entry: in·dig·na·tion
Pronunciation: "in-dig-'nA-sh&n
Function: noun
: anger aroused by something unjust, unworthy, or mean
synonym see ANGER

This is my last attempt at making you get into sensible debate. Any more personal attacks and you will get a fitting reply from me.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2006, 12:28:27 AM by flute202020 »
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justforkix

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2006, 12:32:57 AM »

justforkix,
I really believe this Indian ODI side can beat this Australian side. While its nice to applaud the opposition, but the same way it can be said about our team too. Symonds, Hussey and Clark are brilliant so is our own Dhoni,Yuvraj and Raina. For Adam Gilchrist, Ricky Ponting, Hayden we have our own Sachin,Rahul and Sehwag. I honestly believe our side can beat this Aussie side if we play the match tomorrow. No, this is not just some patriotic feeling but whats good about our team is the process is very well in place, they are doing the basics just right. And moreover, the Aussie ODI side has been declining in my opinion. Most of their recent ODI wins were unconvincing. Having said that,in my opinion, two players will decide which team will take the World Cup home, Irfan Pathan and Glenn McGrath.

I applaud your upbeat outlook and optimism  :)

But, it is Indian batting vs. Aussie bowling and Aussie batting vs. Indian bowling.

For me, there are 2 main questions :

(1)  How will IP, Raina and MSD (left out the proven performers yuvi, kaif, SRT, RD and VS) respond to some disciplined and good bowling by say McGrath, Dizzy, Lee, Warne/Hogg and Symonds (IMO, Warnie will surely play in WC07 and Symo is an underrated ODI bowler).

(2) How will our bowlers IP, AA, SS, MP, RPS, HS, RP respond to some brutal onslaughts by Hayden, Gilly, Punter, Hussey, Symo.

At least Q1 is manageable because we have some experienced batters. But, I have no hope w.r.t. Q2. Our bowlers will simply succumb. Because even very good bowlers have not handled these psychos' mad hitting !!!! Hopefully they can prove me wrong  ;)

Anywayz, the ICC Champions Trophy game vs. Aus will be a good indicator  :)
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ramshorns

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2006, 12:35:43 AM »

While winning WC-07 would be more than thrilling, that is not the yardstick to measure the success of the ODI team - that is done over quite a few series and how we play in different conditions against diff teams. If we do well in WC (semis is prob min we expect, entering finals will be real good), and if we do well in other series, then IMO, our ODI team can be considered improved. That would be the yardstick to judge, not just one tournament.

Cannot decide based on just one match or one series.
spot on fineleg. applause for you. While this is the ideal way of evaluating the team, I don't think it will turn out this way. There are quite a few indignant fans of former stars like SG & VVS who are waiting and ready to draw blood if we fail to perform well in WC07. There is no benefit of doubt or evaluation after WC, if we don't get WC, "I told ya" statements will be all over the place on this DG.
And there are some idiotic fans who have no respect for the greats and a ZIP when it comes to cricketing IQ who know nothing about the game but are only obssesed at showing guys they do not like in poor light.  For them as long as their agendas and the players they like are in the team that satisfies them.  What is fair is not important to them.   Then accuse others of wanting TEAM India to fail when probably in their rotten minds have such thoughts.  It is dsgraceful to call the fans of these greats indignant when the same fans go out of the way to support this new look team.

Here is indignant meaning from Merriam Webster dictionary. I gave you a really long rope and you keep attacking me. Time will not and did not freeze with VVS or Gundappa, things changed a lot in cricket and to win ODIs, artistry and lazy drives is not going to help. Get this into your head and you might get out of your irritable mood. BTW, before attacking people, check the meaning of words and you will know who is being an idiot.

Main Entry: in·dig·na·tion
Pronunciation: "in-dig-'nA-sh&n
Function: noun
: anger aroused by something unjust, unworthy, or mean
synonym see ANGER

This is my last attempt at making you get into sensible debate. Any more personal attacks and you will get a fitting reply from me.
Do not try to put a spin on things Mr.English.  My reply was apt and will continue so.  Till this point I was not personal either, now if you try being indignant and take subtle jabs at DG members then may be want to take it outside.  Any how what is it is with Vishy and VVS when you want to make this personal.  I will let you take the first punch and will respond accordingly.  For the record one of the gent is still active and playing.  So that tells how you are thinking.  That explains who is in a irritable mood.
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flute202020

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2006, 12:39:29 AM »

While winning WC-07 would be more than thrilling, that is not the yardstick to measure the success of the ODI team - that is done over quite a few series and how we play in different conditions against diff teams. If we do well in WC (semis is prob min we expect, entering finals will be real good), and if we do well in other series, then IMO, our ODI team can be considered improved. That would be the yardstick to judge, not just one tournament.

Cannot decide based on just one match or one series.
spot on fineleg. applause for you. While this is the ideal way of evaluating the team, I don't think it will turn out this way. There are quite a few indignant fans of former stars like SG & VVS who are waiting and ready to draw blood if we fail to perform well in WC07. There is no benefit of doubt or evaluation after WC, if we don't get WC, "I told ya" statements will be all over the place on this DG.
And there are some idiotic fans who have no respect for the greats and a ZIP when it comes to cricketing IQ who know nothing about the game but are only obssesed at showing guys they do not like in poor light.  For them as long as their agendas and the players they like are in the team that satisfies them.  What is fair is not important to them.   Then accuse others of wanting TEAM India to fail when probably in their rotten minds have such thoughts.  It is dsgraceful to call the fans of these greats indignant when the same fans go out of the way to support this new look team.

Here is indignant meaning from Merriam Webster dictionary. I gave you a really long rope and you keep attacking me. Time will not and did not freeze with VVS or Gundappa, things changed a lot in cricket and to win ODIs, artistry and lazy drives is not going to help. Get this into your head and you might get out of your irritable mood. BTW, before attacking people, check the meaning of words and you will know who is being an idiot.

Main Entry: in·dig·na·tion
Pronunciation: "in-dig-'nA-sh&n
Function: noun
: anger aroused by something unjust, unworthy, or mean
synonym see ANGER

This is my last attempt at making you get into sensible debate. Any more personal attacks and you will get a fitting reply from me.
Do not try to put a spin on things Mr.English.  My reply was apt and will continue so.  Till this point I was not personal either, now if you try being indignant and take subtle jabs at DG members then may be want to take it outside.  Any how what is it is with Vishy and VVS when you want to make this personal.  I will let you take the first punch and will respond accordingly.  For the record one of the gent is still active and playing.  So that tells how you are thinking.  That explains who is in a irritable mood.
I used a word and I gave the meaning of that word, where is the spin? Again, if you are not sure of meaning of words, plz check before calling people idiotic.

Last I checked, calling DG member idiot is a personal attack. You owe me an apology.
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ramshorns

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2006, 12:54:13 AM »

While winning WC-07 would be more than thrilling, that is not the yardstick to measure the success of the ODI team - that is done over quite a few series and how we play in different conditions against diff teams. If we do well in WC (semis is prob min we expect, entering finals will be real good), and if we do well in other series, then IMO, our ODI team can be considered improved. That would be the yardstick to judge, not just one tournament.

Cannot decide based on just one match or one series.
spot on fineleg. applause for you. While this is the ideal way of evaluating the team, I don't think it will turn out this way. There are quite a few indignant fans of former stars like SG & VVS who are waiting and ready to draw blood if we fail to perform well in WC07. There is no benefit of doubt or evaluation after WC, if we don't get WC, "I told ya" statements will be all over the place on this DG.
And there are some idiotic fans who have no respect for the greats and a ZIP when it comes to cricketing IQ who know nothing about the game but are only obssesed at showing guys they do not like in poor light.  For them as long as their agendas and the players they like are in the team that satisfies them.  What is fair is not important to them.   Then accuse others of wanting TEAM India to fail when probably in their rotten minds have such thoughts.  It is dsgraceful to call the fans of these greats indignant when the same fans go out of the way to support this new look team.

Here is indignant meaning from Merriam Webster dictionary. I gave you a really long rope and you keep attacking me. Time will not and did not freeze with VVS or Gundappa, things changed a lot in cricket and to win ODIs, artistry and lazy drives is not going to help. Get this into your head and you might get out of your irritable mood. BTW, before attacking people, check the meaning of words and you will know who is being an idiot.

Main Entry: in·dig·na·tion
Pronunciation: "in-dig-'nA-sh&n
Function: noun
: anger aroused by something unjust, unworthy, or mean
synonym see ANGER

This is my last attempt at making you get into sensible debate. Any more personal attacks and you will get a fitting reply from me.
Do not try to put a spin on things Mr.English.  My reply was apt and will continue so.  Till this point I was not personal either, now if you try being indignant and take subtle jabs at DG members then may be want to take it outside.  Any how what is it is with Vishy and VVS when you want to make this personal.  I will let you take the first punch and will respond accordingly.  For the record one of the gent is still active and playing.  So that tells how you are thinking.  That explains who is in a irritable mood.
I used a word and I gave the meaning of that word, where is the spin? Again, if you are not sure of meaning of words, plz check before calling people idiotic.

Last I checked, calling DG member idiot is a personal attack. You owe me an apology.
Again read your post.  When you have the guts to call the fans of other players not in the team "who are waiting and ready to draw blood if we fail" then expect a fitting reply.  That is a bigger deal to me than calling you an Idiot or whatever.  If you are willing to send me an apology for huring me personally being a VVS fan then mine will follow. I hope you reconcile and take it back first. Then see what happens.
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flute202020

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2006, 01:08:25 AM »

While winning WC-07 would be more than thrilling, that is not the yardstick to measure the success of the ODI team - that is done over quite a few series and how we play in different conditions against diff teams. If we do well in WC (semis is prob min we expect, entering finals will be real good), and if we do well in other series, then IMO, our ODI team can be considered improved. That would be the yardstick to judge, not just one tournament.

Cannot decide based on just one match or one series.
spot on fineleg. applause for you. While this is the ideal way of evaluating the team, I don't think it will turn out this way. There are quite a few indignant fans of former stars like SG & VVS who are waiting and ready to draw blood if we fail to perform well in WC07. There is no benefit of doubt or evaluation after WC, if we don't get WC, "I told ya" statements will be all over the place on this DG.
And there are some idiotic fans who have no respect for the greats and a ZIP when it comes to cricketing IQ who know nothing about the game but are only obssesed at showing guys they do not like in poor light.  For them as long as their agendas and the players they like are in the team that satisfies them.  What is fair is not important to them.   Then accuse others of wanting TEAM India to fail when probably in their rotten minds have such thoughts.  It is dsgraceful to call the fans of these greats indignant when the same fans go out of the way to support this new look team.

Here is indignant meaning from Merriam Webster dictionary. I gave you a really long rope and you keep attacking me. Time will not and did not freeze with VVS or Gundappa, things changed a lot in cricket and to win ODIs, artistry and lazy drives is not going to help. Get this into your head and you might get out of your irritable mood. BTW, before attacking people, check the meaning of words and you will know who is being an idiot.

Main Entry: in·dig·na·tion
Pronunciation: "in-dig-'nA-sh&n
Function: noun
: anger aroused by something unjust, unworthy, or mean
synonym see ANGER

This is my last attempt at making you get into sensible debate. Any more personal attacks and you will get a fitting reply from me.
Do not try to put a spin on things Mr.English.  My reply was apt and will continue so.  Till this point I was not personal either, now if you try being indignant and take subtle jabs at DG members then may be want to take it outside.  Any how what is it is with Vishy and VVS when you want to make this personal.  I will let you take the first punch and will respond accordingly.  For the record one of the gent is still active and playing.  So that tells how you are thinking.  That explains who is in a irritable mood.
I used a word and I gave the meaning of that word, where is the spin? Again, if you are not sure of meaning of words, plz check before calling people idiotic.

Last I checked, calling DG member idiot is a personal attack. You owe me an apology.
Again read your post.  When you have the guts to call the fans of other players not in the team "who are waiting and ready to draw blood if we fail" then expect a fitting reply.  That is a bigger deal to me than calling you an Idiot or whatever.  If you are willing to send me an apology for huring me personally being a VVS fan then mine will follow. I hope you reconcile and take it back first. Then see what happens.
no more words with you. this is reported to the Mods. You been attacking a lot of people on this DG. Calling names is not acceptable.

And there are some idiotic fans who have no respect for the greats and a ZIP when it comes to cricketing IQ who know nothing about the game but are only obssesed at showing guys they do not like in poor light.  For them as long as their agendas and the players they like are in the team that satisfies them.  What is fair is not important to them.   Then accuse others of wanting TEAM India to fail when probably in their rotten minds have such thoughts.  It is disgraceful to call the fans of these greats indignant when the same fans go out of the way to support this new look team.

For vociferous fans to indignantly demand for his inclusion is simply out of place.
Look you idiot next time you call someones indignant watchout.  Just like you ask others to read others posts you do the same.   Don't try to be subtle about your statements and think you can get away with it.  Not with me you won't.

flute,
Like what Sahir, rams, and I have pointed out  - running between wkts is an issue for others as well (in a different style maybe, but still not all folks are judging runs very well in current squad eg. RD, Venu-does not seem particularly great in running, VS-slower than before)
Fineleg:Any person who has a decent understanding of the game will get it.  This dismissive attitude and going out of the way to prove a player is bad though not true outlines certain likes and dislikes.  Although I can go and get atleast 25 matches of RD and prove it on this forum what a pathetic ODI player he was.  I chose not to do that because I know every dog has its good and bad day.  Also if VVS has nothing left in his tank, I will come on this DG and say so.


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ramshorns

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2006, 01:13:04 AM »

While winning WC-07 would be more than thrilling, that is not the yardstick to measure the success of the ODI team - that is done over quite a few series and how we play in different conditions against diff teams. If we do well in WC (semis is prob min we expect, entering finals will be real good), and if we do well in other series, then IMO, our ODI team can be considered improved. That would be the yardstick to judge, not just one tournament.

Cannot decide based on just one match or one series.
spot on fineleg. applause for you. While this is the ideal way of evaluating the team, I don't think it will turn out this way. There are quite a few indignant fans of former stars like SG & VVS who are waiting and ready to draw blood if we fail to perform well in WC07. There is no benefit of doubt or evaluation after WC, if we don't get WC, "I told ya" statements will be all over the place on this DG.
And there are some idiotic fans who have no respect for the greats and a ZIP when it comes to cricketing IQ who know nothing about the game but are only obssesed at showing guys they do not like in poor light.  For them as long as their agendas and the players they like are in the team that satisfies them.  What is fair is not important to them.   Then accuse others of wanting TEAM India to fail when probably in their rotten minds have such thoughts.  It is dsgraceful to call the fans of these greats indignant when the same fans go out of the way to support this new look team.

Here is indignant meaning from Merriam Webster dictionary. I gave you a really long rope and you keep attacking me. Time will not and did not freeze with VVS or Gundappa, things changed a lot in cricket and to win ODIs, artistry and lazy drives is not going to help. Get this into your head and you might get out of your irritable mood. BTW, before attacking people, check the meaning of words and you will know who is being an idiot.

Main Entry: in·dig·na·tion
Pronunciation: "in-dig-'nA-sh&n
Function: noun
: anger aroused by something unjust, unworthy, or mean
synonym see ANGER

This is my last attempt at making you get into sensible debate. Any more personal attacks and you will get a fitting reply from me.
Do not try to put a spin on things Mr.English.  My reply was apt and will continue so.  Till this point I was not personal either, now if you try being indignant and take subtle jabs at DG members then may be want to take it outside.  Any how what is it is with Vishy and VVS when you want to make this personal.  I will let you take the first punch and will respond accordingly.  For the record one of the gent is still active and playing.  So that tells how you are thinking.  That explains who is in a irritable mood.
I used a word and I gave the meaning of that word, where is the spin? Again, if you are not sure of meaning of words, plz check before calling people idiotic.

Last I checked, calling DG member idiot is a personal attack. You owe me an apology.
Again read your post.  When you have the guts to call the fans of other players not in the team "who are waiting and ready to draw blood if we fail" then expect a fitting reply.  That is a bigger deal to me than calling you an Idiot or whatever.  If you are willing to send me an apology for huring me personally being a VVS fan then mine will follow. I hope you reconcile and take it back first. Then see what happens.
no more words with you. this is reported to the Mods. You been attacking a lot of people on this DG. Calling names is not acceptable.

And there are some idiotic fans who have no respect for the greats and a ZIP when it comes to cricketing IQ who know nothing about the game but are only obssesed at showing guys they do not like in poor light.  For them as long as their agendas and the players they like are in the team that satisfies them.  What is fair is not important to them.   Then accuse others of wanting TEAM India to fail when probably in their rotten minds have such thoughts.  It is disgraceful to call the fans of these greats indignant when the same fans go out of the way to support this new look team.

For vociferous fans to indignantly demand for his inclusion is simply out of place.
Look you idiot next time you call someones indignant watchout.  Just like you ask others to read others posts you do the same.   Don't try to be subtle about your statements and think you can get away with it.  Not with me you won't.

flute,
Like what Sahir, rams, and I have pointed out  - running between wkts is an issue for others as well (in a different style maybe, but still not all folks are judging runs very well in current squad eg. RD, Venu-does not seem particularly great in running, VS-slower than before)
Fineleg:Any person who has a decent understanding of the game will get it.  This dismissive attitude and going out of the way to prove a player is bad though not true outlines certain likes and dislikes.  Although I can go and get atleast 25 matches of RD and prove it on this forum what a pathetic ODI player he was.  I chose not to do that because I know every dog has its good and bad day.  Also if VVS has nothing left in his tank, I will come on this DG and say so.



While attacking and sending nasty PM's are your style, mine is purely responding to one's based on the merit.  Now again you said I have attacked others on the DG.  Let us find it out ;D ;D ;D ;D.
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flute202020

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2006, 01:28:57 AM »

Here is how you made personal remarks about anyone who din't agree with you about VVS. You simply shouted down everyone who disagreed with you, the list is long toney, stumped, senthil,flute...


coming to PMs, my first PM was to explain to you about the meaning of a word and after that it was fitting reply to your response.

I gave only your remarks to reduce length of this post. Full context can anytime be seen in the relevent thread.


Toney
Quote
Why is it so surprising?????Your other part of the statement  "If he is so confident, why isnt he in the ODI toeam to the WI in the first place?", reminds me of a basketball player named Patrick Ewing salary close to $20 mil a year, in the middle of players strike or lockdown was asked if the NBA players were not making enough money and would consider a lesser deal.  His response in those fake sunglasses and an expensive suit "We make a lot of money but we also spend a lot of money". 
As if being in the team is in VVS's hands.  That statement of yours is so comparable to Pat Ewing,

Quote
Now don't try to get too smart here and get SG into the equation and complicate matters.  I never negatively commented once on SG.  That was best left to the likes of you.   Your statement there was about VVS and I had felt that way and hence my comparision to the NBA player. 

As for your saying if you are off limits on commenting about VVS, I would ask you to read K-I-C's post immediately following mine(scroll up) and he exactly got what VVS meant. 

Quote
Now you are providing a cover up for the Ewing like statement and that does not change the erroneous nature of your take.  You putting a spin on things will not change that.  If a player who performed well is not considered then that can be attributed to the direction the team management wants to go.  Right or Wrong is up for debate.  But VVS should say and feel and do exactly what he is doing now????I commend him for that.

If you cannot differentiate between being practical and saying what I personally feel like I cannot help you.  All I can say is you are confused judging a person who is taking practical approach to things based on certian parameters to being contradictory. 

As long as you have valid takes you will not hear from me, but if I feel otherwise IMO sorry I will be a thorn in the flesh and take you on. 


Stumped
Quote
Any one who will read this thread from top to bottom will exactly know the contents, context and the nature of the takes.  So they will decide for themselves.  I am posting this one with the permission of "HIS HIGHNESS"

OK your highness I will not post on this thread any more.  I will not argue with anyone who say that Laxman should not have any realistic confidence.  I will just carry a message from this thread to VVS asking him to not  train, practice or set goals.  I will ask him not to speak to anyone and say anything about his chances. I will just ask him to quit and be a loser.  I will also ask him to get Stumped next time he shows up at the wicket as a gift to THE LORD Stumped.
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ramshorns

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2006, 01:42:41 AM »

Here is how you made personal remarks about anyone who din't agree with you about VVS. You simply shouted down everyone who disagreed with you, the list is long toney, stumped, senthil,flute...


coming to PMs, my first PM was to explain to you about the meaning of a word and after that it was fitting reply to your response.

I gave only your remarks to reduce length of this post. Full context can anytime be seen in the relevent thread.


Toney
Quote
Why is it so surprising?????Your other part of the statement  "If he is so confident, why isnt he in the ODI toeam to the WI in the first place?", reminds me of a basketball player named Patrick Ewing salary close to $20 mil a year, in the middle of players strike or lockdown was asked if the NBA players were not making enough money and would consider a lesser deal.  His response in those fake sunglasses and an expensive suit "We make a lot of money but we also spend a lot of money". 
As if being in the team is in VVS's hands.  That statement of yours is so comparable to Pat Ewing,

Quote
Now don't try to get too smart here and get SG into the equation and complicate matters.  I never negatively commented once on SG.  That was best left to the likes of you.   Your statement there was about VVS and I had felt that way and hence my comparision to the NBA player. 

As for your saying if you are off limits on commenting about VVS, I would ask you to read K-I-C's post immediately following mine(scroll up) and he exactly got what VVS meant. 

Quote
Now you are providing a cover up for the Ewing like statement and that does not change the erroneous nature of your take.  You putting a spin on things will not change that.  If a player who performed well is not considered then that can be attributed to the direction the team management wants to go.  Right or Wrong is up for debate.  But VVS should say and feel and do exactly what he is doing now????I commend him for that.

If you cannot differentiate between being practical and saying what I personally feel like I cannot help you.  All I can say is you are confused judging a person who is taking practical approach to things based on certian parameters to being contradictory. 

As long as you have valid takes you will not hear from me, but if I feel otherwise IMO sorry I will be a thorn in the flesh and take you on. 


Stumped
Quote
Any one who will read this thread from top to bottom will exactly know the contents, context and the nature of the takes.  So they will decide for themselves.  I am posting this one with the permission of "HIS HIGHNESS"

OK your highness I will not post on this thread any more.  I will not argue with anyone who say that Laxman should not have any realistic confidence.  I will just carry a message from this thread to VVS asking him to not  train, practice or set goals.  I will ask him not to speak to anyone and say anything about his chances. I will just ask him to quit and be a loser.  I will also ask him to get Stumped next time he shows up at the wicket as a gift to THE LORD Stumped.
Again this is just to tarnish.  I will attach the link here.  One has to  read the posts in the order to get it. I think you doing the Mods job is wrong.  You are not one.  So let people read the thread for themselves to decide what is right or wrong.
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=2612.0

 
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flute202020

  • Guest
Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2006, 02:01:21 AM »

Here is how you made personal remarks about anyone who din't agree with you about VVS. You simply shouted down everyone who disagreed with you, the list is long toney, stumped, senthil,flute...


coming to PMs, my first PM was to explain to you about the meaning of a word and after that it was fitting reply to your response.

I gave only your remarks to reduce length of this post. Full context can anytime be seen in the relevent thread.


Toney
Quote
Why is it so surprising?????Your other part of the statement  "If he is so confident, why isnt he in the ODI toeam to the WI in the first place?", reminds me of a basketball player named Patrick Ewing salary close to $20 mil a year, in the middle of players strike or lockdown was asked if the NBA players were not making enough money and would consider a lesser deal.  His response in those fake sunglasses and an expensive suit "We make a lot of money but we also spend a lot of money". 
As if being in the team is in VVS's hands.  That statement of yours is so comparable to Pat Ewing,

Quote
Now don't try to get too smart here and get SG into the equation and complicate matters.  I never negatively commented once on SG.  That was best left to the likes of you.   Your statement there was about VVS and I had felt that way and hence my comparision to the NBA player. 

As for your saying if you are off limits on commenting about VVS, I would ask you to read K-I-C's post immediately following mine(scroll up) and he exactly got what VVS meant. 

Quote
Now you are providing a cover up for the Ewing like statement and that does not change the erroneous nature of your take.  You putting a spin on things will not change that.  If a player who performed well is not considered then that can be attributed to the direction the team management wants to go.  Right or Wrong is up for debate.  But VVS should say and feel and do exactly what he is doing now????I commend him for that.

If you cannot differentiate between being practical and saying what I personally feel like I cannot help you.  All I can say is you are confused judging a person who is taking practical approach to things based on certian parameters to being contradictory. 

As long as you have valid takes you will not hear from me, but if I feel otherwise IMO sorry I will be a thorn in the flesh and take you on. 


Stumped
Quote
Any one who will read this thread from top to bottom will exactly know the contents, context and the nature of the takes.  So they will decide for themselves.  I am posting this one with the permission of "HIS HIGHNESS"

OK your highness I will not post on this thread any more.  I will not argue with anyone who say that Laxman should not have any realistic confidence.  I will just carry a message from this thread to VVS asking him to not  train, practice or set goals.  I will ask him not to speak to anyone and say anything about his chances. I will just ask him to quit and be a loser.  I will also ask him to get Stumped next time he shows up at the wicket as a gift to THE LORD Stumped.
Again this is just to tarnish.  I will attach the link here.  One has to  read the posts in the order to get it. I think you doing the Mods job is wrong.  You are not one.  So let people read the thread for themselves to decide what is right or wrong.
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=2612.0

 
disjointed logic . You asked for it and I gave your quotes. How is quoting you mod's job?
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ramshorns

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2006, 02:08:16 AM »

Here is how you made personal remarks about anyone who din't agree with you about VVS. You simply shouted down everyone who disagreed with you, the list is long toney, stumped, senthil,flute...


coming to PMs, my first PM was to explain to you about the meaning of a word and after that it was fitting reply to your response.

I gave only your remarks to reduce length of this post. Full context can anytime be seen in the relevent thread.


Toney
Quote
Why is it so surprising?????Your other part of the statement  "If he is so confident, why isnt he in the ODI toeam to the WI in the first place?", reminds me of a basketball player named Patrick Ewing salary close to $20 mil a year, in the middle of players strike or lockdown was asked if the NBA players were not making enough money and would consider a lesser deal.  His response in those fake sunglasses and an expensive suit "We make a lot of money but we also spend a lot of money". 
As if being in the team is in VVS's hands.  That statement of yours is so comparable to Pat Ewing,

Quote
Now don't try to get too smart here and get SG into the equation and complicate matters.  I never negatively commented once on SG.  That was best left to the likes of you.   Your statement there was about VVS and I had felt that way and hence my comparision to the NBA player. 

As for your saying if you are off limits on commenting about VVS, I would ask you to read K-I-C's post immediately following mine(scroll up) and he exactly got what VVS meant. 

Quote
Now you are providing a cover up for the Ewing like statement and that does not change the erroneous nature of your take.  You putting a spin on things will not change that.  If a player who performed well is not considered then that can be attributed to the direction the team management wants to go.  Right or Wrong is up for debate.  But VVS should say and feel and do exactly what he is doing now????I commend him for that.

If you cannot differentiate between being practical and saying what I personally feel like I cannot help you.  All I can say is you are confused judging a person who is taking practical approach to things based on certian parameters to being contradictory. 

As long as you have valid takes you will not hear from me, but if I feel otherwise IMO sorry I will be a thorn in the flesh and take you on. 


Stumped
Quote
Any one who will read this thread from top to bottom will exactly know the contents, context and the nature of the takes.  So they will decide for themselves.  I am posting this one with the permission of "HIS HIGHNESS"

OK your highness I will not post on this thread any more.  I will not argue with anyone who say that Laxman should not have any realistic confidence.  I will just carry a message from this thread to VVS asking him to not  train, practice or set goals.  I will ask him not to speak to anyone and say anything about his chances. I will just ask him to quit and be a loser.  I will also ask him to get Stumped next time he shows up at the wicket as a gift to THE LORD Stumped.
Again this is just to tarnish.  I will attach the link here.  One has to  read the posts in the order to get it. I think you doing the Mods job is wrong.  You are not one.  So let people read the thread for themselves to decide what is right or wrong.
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=2612.0

 
disjointed logic . You asked for it and I gave your quotes. How is quoting you mod's job?
I am loving this. ;D ;D ;D ;D This is a freaking DG.  People say things as they feel like without being derogatory.  I said what I felt like.  Stop being a baby.  You don't have to quote me.  I have myself given the link for it.    People are smarter than what you think.  You don't have to knit pick as it suits you.  They will figure it out.   Don't waste your time.
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prfsr

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2006, 02:10:40 AM »

While winning WC-07 would be more than thrilling, that is not the yardstick to measure the success of the ODI team - that is done over quite a few series and how we play in different conditions against diff teams. If we do well in WC (semis is prob min we expect, entering finals will be real good), and if we do well in other series, then IMO, our ODI team can be considered improved. That would be the yardstick to judge, not just one tournament.

Cannot decide based on just one match or one series.

Fair enough, but do you agree that everything that has been done by the "new BCCI", most notably More, GC, Pawar was geared towards the WC? That was the reason for all personnel changes (not just SG), and that was the reason the new coach was chosen (as has been reported on this DG). Surely you agree that the new BCCI management has set the criterion for itself?

-P
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flute202020

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2006, 02:38:53 AM »

Here is how you made personal remarks about anyone who din't agree with you about VVS. You simply shouted down everyone who disagreed with you, the list is long toney, stumped, senthil,flute...


coming to PMs, my first PM was to explain to you about the meaning of a word and after that it was fitting reply to your response.

I gave only your remarks to reduce length of this post. Full context can anytime be seen in the relevent thread.


Toney
Quote
Why is it so surprising?????Your other part of the statement  "If he is so confident, why isnt he in the ODI toeam to the WI in the first place?", reminds me of a basketball player named Patrick Ewing salary close to $20 mil a year, in the middle of players strike or lockdown was asked if the NBA players were not making enough money and would consider a lesser deal.  His response in those fake sunglasses and an expensive suit "We make a lot of money but we also spend a lot of money". 
As if being in the team is in VVS's hands.  That statement of yours is so comparable to Pat Ewing,

Quote
Now don't try to get too smart here and get SG into the equation and complicate matters.  I never negatively commented once on SG.  That was best left to the likes of you.   Your statement there was about VVS and I had felt that way and hence my comparision to the NBA player. 

As for your saying if you are off limits on commenting about VVS, I would ask you to read K-I-C's post immediately following mine(scroll up) and he exactly got what VVS meant. 

Quote
Now you are providing a cover up for the Ewing like statement and that does not change the erroneous nature of your take.  You putting a spin on things will not change that.  If a player who performed well is not considered then that can be attributed to the direction the team management wants to go.  Right or Wrong is up for debate.  But VVS should say and feel and do exactly what he is doing now????I commend him for that.

If you cannot differentiate between being practical and saying what I personally feel like I cannot help you.  All I can say is you are confused judging a person who is taking practical approach to things based on certian parameters to being contradictory. 

As long as you have valid takes you will not hear from me, but if I feel otherwise IMO sorry I will be a thorn in the flesh and take you on. 


Stumped
Quote
Any one who will read this thread from top to bottom will exactly know the contents, context and the nature of the takes.  So they will decide for themselves.  I am posting this one with the permission of "HIS HIGHNESS"

OK your highness I will not post on this thread any more.  I will not argue with anyone who say that Laxman should not have any realistic confidence.  I will just carry a message from this thread to VVS asking him to not  train, practice or set goals.  I will ask him not to speak to anyone and say anything about his chances. I will just ask him to quit and be a loser.  I will also ask him to get Stumped next time he shows up at the wicket as a gift to THE LORD Stumped.
Again this is just to tarnish.  I will attach the link here.  One has to  read the posts in the order to get it. I think you doing the Mods job is wrong.  You are not one.  So let people read the thread for themselves to decide what is right or wrong.
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=2612.0

 
disjointed logic . You asked for it and I gave your quotes. How is quoting you mod's job?
I am loving this. ;D ;D ;D ;D This is a freaking DG.  People say things as they feel like without being derogatory.  I said what I felt like.  Stop being a baby.  You don't have to quote me.  I have myself given the link for it.    People are smarter than what you think.  You don't have to knit pick as it suits you.  They will figure it out.   Don't waste your time.
I don't know about you, but I for one, use my judgement in saying things , I just don't say what I feel like saying. get the difference.
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ramshorns

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2006, 02:53:21 AM »

Here is how you made personal remarks about anyone who din't agree with you about VVS. You simply shouted down everyone who disagreed with you, the list is long toney, stumped, senthil,flute...


coming to PMs, my first PM was to explain to you about the meaning of a word and after that it was fitting reply to your response.

I gave only your remarks to reduce length of this post. Full context can anytime be seen in the relevent thread.


Toney
Quote
Why is it so surprising?????Your other part of the statement  "If he is so confident, why isnt he in the ODI toeam to the WI in the first place?", reminds me of a basketball player named Patrick Ewing salary close to $20 mil a year, in the middle of players strike or lockdown was asked if the NBA players were not making enough money and would consider a lesser deal.  His response in those fake sunglasses and an expensive suit "We make a lot of money but we also spend a lot of money". 
As if being in the team is in VVS's hands.  That statement of yours is so comparable to Pat Ewing,

Quote
Now don't try to get too smart here and get SG into the equation and complicate matters.  I never negatively commented once on SG.  That was best left to the likes of you.   Your statement there was about VVS and I had felt that way and hence my comparision to the NBA player. 

As for your saying if you are off limits on commenting about VVS, I would ask you to read K-I-C's post immediately following mine(scroll up) and he exactly got what VVS meant. 

Quote
Now you are providing a cover up for the Ewing like statement and that does not change the erroneous nature of your take.  You putting a spin on things will not change that.  If a player who performed well is not considered then that can be attributed to the direction the team management wants to go.  Right or Wrong is up for debate.  But VVS should say and feel and do exactly what he is doing now????I commend him for that.

If you cannot differentiate between being practical and saying what I personally feel like I cannot help you.  All I can say is you are confused judging a person who is taking practical approach to things based on certian parameters to being contradictory. 

As long as you have valid takes you will not hear from me, but if I feel otherwise IMO sorry I will be a thorn in the flesh and take you on. 


Stumped
Quote
Any one who will read this thread from top to bottom will exactly know the contents, context and the nature of the takes.  So they will decide for themselves.  I am posting this one with the permission of "HIS HIGHNESS"

OK your highness I will not post on this thread any more.  I will not argue with anyone who say that Laxman should not have any realistic confidence.  I will just carry a message from this thread to VVS asking him to not  train, practice or set goals.  I will ask him not to speak to anyone and say anything about his chances. I will just ask him to quit and be a loser.  I will also ask him to get Stumped next time he shows up at the wicket as a gift to THE LORD Stumped.
Again this is just to tarnish.  I will attach the link here.  One has to  read the posts in the order to get it. I think you doing the Mods job is wrong.  You are not one.  So let people read the thread for themselves to decide what is right or wrong.
http://www.cricketvoice.com/cricketforum2/index.php?topic=2612.0

 
disjointed logic . You asked for it and I gave your quotes. How is quoting you mod's job?
I am loving this. ;D ;D ;D ;D This is a freaking DG.  People say things as they feel like without being derogatory.  I said what I felt like.  Stop being a baby.  You don't have to quote me.  I have myself given the link for it.    People are smarter than what you think.  You don't have to knit pick as it suits you.  They will figure it out.   Don't waste your time.
I don't know about you, but I for one, use my judgement in saying things , I just don't say what I feel like saying. get the difference.
But then call fans of VVS/SG etc are anti-india as your quote speaks from one of your posts "There are quite a few indignant fans of former stars like SG & VVS who are waiting and ready to draw blood if we fail to perform well in WC07.", as if you are antaryami who know what people think.  Sure you use your judgement.  You call players still part of TEAM INDIA as former stars and I will go looking for meanings to know what it is.
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squarecut

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2006, 03:04:41 AM »

VVS didn't play WC03 and Kumble didn't play much in that one so what is this fuss about.

VVS was never a good ODI player but tests are totally diff. So make your own judgments.
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ramshorns

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2006, 03:21:23 AM »

VVS didn't play WC03 and Kumble didn't play much in that one so what is this fuss about.

VVS was never a good ODI player but tests are totally diff. So make your own judgments.
No problems with that.  You are entiltled to your opinions.  But when the personal element of accusing someones motive or suggesting rooting against India because VVS is not in the team comes in sorry I will reply aptly.  No two ways about it.   I spent freakin time and money to watch Indian matches.  I hope some of the others like you see the difference.  Also I will never make fuss of anything.  This is nothing trust me.  With me it goes both ways.  I give some when it is warranted and take it when someone dishes out.  But when you accuse me of things I am not, watch out.  I will let it be known. 
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atticus

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2006, 03:22:48 AM »

VVS didn't play WC03 and Kumble didn't play much in that one so what is this fuss about.

VVS was never a good ODI player but tests are totally diff. So make your own judgments.

It is much easier to attack GC by including VVS, AK and ZK in the list of players "wronged" than just using the only 1 player who can be realistically be considered to be axed by GC for non-cricketing reasons. You know, something about "strength in numbers".
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ramshorns

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2006, 03:25:42 AM »

So that folks on this DG know I have exchanged notes with Toney, Stumped, Senthil after the said infamous quotes of mine published earlier in this thread.
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squarecut

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Re: Have we found an answer to this question??
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2006, 04:22:54 AM »

VVS didn't play WC03 and Kumble didn't play much in that one so what is this fuss about.

VVS was never a good ODI player but tests are totally diff. So make your own judgments.
No problems with that.  You are entiltled to your opinions.  But when the personal element of accusing someones motive or suggesting rooting against India because VVS is not in the team comes in sorry I will reply aptly.  No two ways about it.   I spent freakin time and money to watch Indian matches.  I hope some of the others like you see the difference.  Also I will never make fuss of anything.  This is nothing trust me.  With me it goes both ways.  I give some when it is warranted and take it when someone dishes out.  But when you accuse me of things I am not, watch out.  I will let it be known. 
accusing you. what r u talking?
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