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Cover Point

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Palin kicks Biden's backside
« on: October 03, 2008, 03:23:45 AM »

Looks like Palin kicked some butt today. Thoughts?
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kban1

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2008, 03:44:58 AM »

The Moose That Roared


Jacob Heilbrunn


Bless her heart, Sarah "drill, baby, drill" Palin strove mightily to hit a gusher tonight against Joe Biden, but came up empty. No, her performance was not the disaster that some in the GOP have been fearing. She'll probably get extra credit, to use a term she employed, for just showing up. But cliche was piled upon cliche as Palin sought to paint Barack Obama, or "Barack," as she referred to him constantly in an attempt to diminish him, as a goofy radical, paired with a more sensible Lieberman, who would end up running America off the rails. As though it hasn't already run off them? The albatross around the neck of the McCain camp, doggone it, is the most unpopular president in American history, George W. Bush. Biden had it right: "past is prologue."

The great weakness that Palin could not overcome is a "reality-based" problem: the economy is tanking. On the one hand, Palin said she wants to get government out of daily life. On the other hand, we need more regulation to combat "greed" and "corruption." Excuse me, but something doesn't add up here.

Ditto for foreign policy. Palin wheeled out the boo words that the Bush administration has proliferated in the past eight years. They -- whoever "they" are -- "hate America." Obama's rush to coddle foreign despots is symptomatic of liberal squishiness --"that is beyond bad judgment, that is dangerous." North Korea's Kim Jong Il may be ill, but Palin sees threats everywhere. Freedom is one generation from extinction, but the polar bears aren't?

Even more than Obama on Friday night, Biden was crisp and -- dare one say it? -- articulate. In scant evidence was his famed verbosity. It was Palin who was chirpy and if the country's mood is gloomy, you'd never know it from Palin's tone.

Biden calmly countered Palin. Tonight, the Barracuda was at sea and McCain's electoral chances may be melting as fast as the polar ice cap. Palin was nothing more than the moose that roared into the wilderness. But was anyone really listening to her?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jacob-heilbrunn/the-moose-that-roared_b_131448.html
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kban1

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2008, 03:49:08 AM »

McCain Lost the VP Debate Too

Robert Schrum

Sarah Palin has experience being a runner-up -- which will come in handy in November. Tonight she barely kept up. In advance, the commenteriat almost unanimously agreed on a false measure of this debate. Judging by "expectation" meant that pundits could conceivably award a faux victory if she was half-coherent and modestly informed after a cram session in Arizona. But voters apply an absolute standard, not a low water mark of expectations: With America facing two wars and economic disaster, Americans ask if a candidate is up to the job.

By any rational assessment, Palin wasn't tonight -- and hasn't been any time she's not reading a teleprompter. President Palin-- the nuclear button, recession, the health care crisis, global warming (which she doesn't believe in, as she believes in creationism) -- well, it simply doesn't compute. A part in Fargo, yes -- that office in the West Wing, no.

Everybody wondered how Palin would do. At least as important, or more, was that Joe Biden did a superb job. He deftly stopped Palin from distorting Obama's views. He won the tax cut argument-- Democrats usually don't. He won the health care argument; Palin just gave up. She wouldn't -- couldn't -- answer the questions; she wanted to talk about energy, which she's supposed to know something about, but she even lost on that . Often she didn't know or couldn't say what McCain's policy is. And on foreign policy, she must have been staring out the window when she sat down with Henry Kissinger. She "loves" Israel but can't discuss mideast realities in one inch depth. She can't even articulate basic conditions for the use of nuclear weapons.

Palin relied on topline phrases and had little command of facts. Why, she even memorized the name of the President of Iran. But it was mostly blah, blah, blah. At the end, the Obama-Biden ticket is far ahead on the big issues -- and Palin's a parrot repeating memorized phrases, not a plausible vice-president. Biden called her on it every time.

The last two Democratic VP nominees fell short in their debates; Lieberman was routed and never even fought back. Biden did the job for Democrats while Palin sounded like Kozinski's Chance the Gardener mouthing empty phrases. In successive sentences she said "there you go again" and "doggone." She talked about ordinary people; Biden eloquently showed he actually cares about the middle class. She was essentially phony and tin-eared after Biden spoke emotionally about his family -- and about raising his sons as a single father after their mother was killed and they almost died in an auto accident -- she spouted pol-talk cliches. He has a real emotional IQ; she sounds like an Ozzie and Harriett script (a reference which shows my age -- and a phony folksiness that reveals her inauthentic authenticity).

Today McCain pulled out of Michigan; the economic news worsened. The electoral map is smaller; the economy is smaller; and the odds on McCain are longer and longer. The press probably will give Palin credit for not falling down on stage. She couldn't deal with many of the questions directly or most of the facts, so she bloviated according to plan. She winked at us; the voters won't wink back at her. Pat Buchanan thinks she won. I think people still have a bull* factor-- and that means she survived even as she met the low expectations she's created. McCain gained nothing; he was the loser -- in the first presidential debate, and the vice-presidential one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-m-shrum/mccain-lost-the-vp-debate_b_131468.html
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kban1

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2008, 04:03:55 AM »

Ex-Bush Officials: Biden Won The Debate

Sam Stein

The consensus from the debate seems to be that while Sarah Palin exceeded the exceedingly low expectations set for her, Joe Biden won the night. The word comes from former members of the Bush administration and even John McCain's former press secretary.

Torie Clarke, who worked with McCain back in Arizona and with the Bush Administration's Department of Defense, had the following remarks on ABC:

"I'm so surprised at what we are talking about before and after the debate. Before the debate the speculation was all on Sarah Palin, how well can she do, can she answer the tough questions? Nobody was paying attention to Joe Biden. I think Joe Biden had his best night tonight. He came with one mission, and that was to go after John McCain, and he did it, backed up by facts. I think he did a better job tonight of tying McCain to the Bush administration than Obama did last week.

Matthew Dowd, who worked for George Bush's communications team while in the White House, followed Clarke and he too agreed that the Delaware Democrat took the evening.

"I think, you know, I agree with her on this. I think Sarah Palin did reasonably well. The death spiral she has been on for the last week, she survived. She's lived another day. She did well. But I think, when the polls come out in the next two, three days, Joe Biden won this debate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/02/ex-bush-officials-biden-w_n_131462.html
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kban1

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 04:10:57 AM »

Who Won The Debate? Reviews Tilt Heavily To Biden
 
Sam Stein



During the course of the debate, CNN was running a viewer response line for uncommitted voters in Ohio. Overall the numbers reflected a very strong performance for Biden. And while Palin scored well, at times, among this crowd, the dial lines indicated that she remains a controversial figure among females in that state.

Biden repeatedly won high accolades on a wide range of topics. His remarks about the personal trials of having a wife and daughter die in a car accident sent responses from both male and females through the roof. His dig at Dick Cheney -- "the most dangerous Vice President in history" -- and his pledge to end the war in Iraq were similarly popular. When he defended Obama from Palin's attacks, he was held in equally high regard.

Much of the time, dial responses sunk when Palin began speaking. Respondents were generally unenthusiastic when she defended McCain. Her defense of the surge generated what was, at best, a flat response. She did have some high moments -- her final statement, her defense of Israel and her call to explore off shore drilling were all popular positions.

Following the debate, only one member of the focus group said they had decided to support the McCain-Palin ticket based on the debate; a half-dozen or more said they would now back Obama and Biden.

On the other hand, Frank Luntz just quizzed his focus group on FOX (which was, strangely enough, sponsored by Budweiser, owned by Anheuser-Busch, of which Cindy McCain's Hensley company is the third largest distributor). Nearly all of them thought Palin did an excellent job and, perhaps, won the debate. When she talked about responsibility -- both on Wall Street and in Washington - the dial numbers went extremely high. Many respondents, meanwhile, said she came off as a "regular American." However, only three respondents in the group said they had moved towards voting for the McCain-Palin ticket.


CBS Focus Group: Biden Wins

Early numbers from a nationally representative poll of 473 uncommitted voters give Biden a significant edge: 46 percent say he won compared to 21 percent for Palin. Thirty-three percent said it was a tie.

More details:

Eighteen percent of previously uncommitted percent say they are now committed to the Obama-Biden ticket. Ten percent say they are now committed to McCain-Palin. Seventy-one percent are still uncommitted.

Both candidates improved their overall image tonight. Fifty-three percent of those surveyed say they now have a better impression of Biden. Five percent say they have a worse opinion of the Delaware senator, while 42 percent say they debate did not change their opinion.

Fifty-five percent say they now have a better opinion of Palin. Fourteen percent say they have a worse opinion, while 30 percent say their opinion hasn't changed.

After the debate, 66 percent see Palin as knowledgeable about important issues - up from 43 percent before the debate. But Biden still has the advantage on this - 98 percent saw him as knowledgeable after the debate. That figure was 79 percent before the debate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/02/biden-dominates-debate-ac_n_131455.html
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poondu

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2008, 04:16:23 AM »

Looks like Palin kicked some butt today. Thoughts?
Good joke..  ;D
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dextrous

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2008, 04:22:52 AM »

Looks like Palin kicked some butt today. Thoughts?

what happened today was totally bizzare...she was making up her own answers to questions that werent being asked! terrible moderator
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pipsqueak

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2008, 04:23:57 AM »

hockey mom palin's recent take on Hamas....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsTLQ612F-A
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kban1

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2008, 04:26:04 AM »

Looks like Palin kicked some butt today. Thoughts?
Good joke..  ;D

No joke if you are from the Bushie Deep Deep right wing. Just check the reactions on Fox.

Reminds me of the line from Sixth Sense (paraphrased):

"I see Stupid people
They are amongst us
and some of them --they dont even know that they are Stupid"
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pipsqueak

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2008, 04:27:21 AM »

Palin did prove today she is as clueless as a donkey when it comes to world affairs - she didn't 'answer' anything but made sure that she rattled off all the carefully rehearsed lines that were prepared for her, accompanied by winks and cutesy smiles.

sheesh! are americans *this* dumb? yes, they are!

« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 04:58:03 AM by pipsqueak »
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dextrous

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2008, 04:57:41 AM »

Palin did prove today she is as clueless as a donkey when it comes to world affairs - she didn't 'answer' anything but made sure that she rattled off all the carefully rehearsed lines that were prepared for her, accompanied by winks and cutesy smiles.

sheesh! are americans *this* dumb? yes, they are!



you're wrong. she's clueless about everything.
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pipsqueak

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2008, 05:03:30 AM »

Palin did prove today she is as clueless as a donkey when it comes to world affairs - she didn't 'answer' anything but made sure that she rattled off all the carefully rehearsed lines that were prepared for her, accompanied by winks and cutesy smiles.

sheesh! are americans *this* dumb? yes, they are!



you're wrong. she's clueless about everything.

nah, she is totally clued in on how to wink/smile/throw in some hicktown phrases...
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LosingNow

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2008, 05:06:12 AM »

Palin did prove today she is as clueless as a donkey when it comes to world affairs - she didn't 'answer' anything but made sure that she rattled off all the carefully rehearsed lines that were prepared for her, accompanied by winks and cutesy smiles.

sheesh! are americans *this* dumb? yes, they are!
Yep.. they are going to elect the new incarnation of Jesus Christ - who is so clued in ;D ;D
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pipsqueak

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2008, 05:09:26 AM »

Palin did prove today she is as clueless as a donkey when it comes to world affairs - she didn't 'answer' anything but made sure that she rattled off all the carefully rehearsed lines that were prepared for her, accompanied by winks and cutesy smiles.

sheesh! are americans *this* dumb? yes, they are!
Yep.. they are going to elect the new incarnation of Jesus Christ - who is so clued in ;D ;D

seriously, you find Sarah Palin a qualified candidate? i am amazed if you do.
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LosingNow

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2008, 05:09:28 AM »

Looks like Palin kicked some butt today. Thoughts?
Did not see the debate ..but will see a replay either later today or tomorrow. Wife (and a liberal friend of mine) say that she did very well.
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LosingNow

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2008, 05:17:59 AM »

Palin did prove today she is as clueless as a donkey when it comes to world affairs - she didn't 'answer' anything but made sure that she rattled off all the carefully rehearsed lines that were prepared for her, accompanied by winks and cutesy smiles.

sheesh! are americans *this* dumb? yes, they are!
Yep.. they are going to elect the new incarnation of Jesus Christ - who is so clued in ;D ;D

seriously, you find Sarah Palin a qualified candidate? i am amazed if you do.

I dont find her qualified.. neither do i find Obama (he is a hope monger with no accomplishments to boot)...and he is fighting for the top of the ticket. None of the 4 are qualified or even more or less qualified than each other. That is the central shame of this campaign. The only reason I support the democrats in this election is because I want the incompetent republicans thrown out.. knowing fully well the policies of Obama (at least the stated ones.. which change by the day and the audience he talks to) are going to hurt the country...but we are living in very perilous times and the need for a messiah is paramount because only prayers can save us now .. and no one can lead us better in that than the son of god.
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pipsqueak

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2008, 05:18:41 AM »

Looks like Palin kicked some butt today. Thoughts?
Did not see the debate ..but will see a replay either later today or tomorrow. Wife (and a liberal friend of mine) say that she did very well.

she did very well appealing to the demographic she is trying to pander to - they want to hear the shrill speak with no substance and they got it.

america likes to glorify idiots and she fits the bill.

compared to her Katie Couric disaster, yeah, anything will be "very well".  she only got one US general name wrong and called Main Street "toxic" but by her standards  those were minor. ;D

Of course, there's this little fact that she chose not answer any question and jsut parroted the lines she had prepared for!

i am not an american and cdn't care less about republicans or democrats but just listening to the people talking, it is easy to gauge who personifies dignity and who personifies dumbness.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 05:20:24 AM by pipsqueak »
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dextrous

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2008, 05:18:59 AM »

Looks like Palin kicked some butt today. Thoughts?
Did not see the debate ..but will see a replay either later today or tomorrow. Wife (and a liberal friend of mine) say that she did very well.

Palin did prove today she is as clueless as a donkey when it comes to world affairs - she didn't 'answer' anything but made sure that she rattled off all the carefully rehearsed lines that were prepared for her, accompanied by winks and cutesy smiles.

sheesh! are americans *this* dumb? yes, they are!
Yep.. they are going to elect the new incarnation of Jesus Christ - who is so clued in ;D ;D

Im just entirely baffled when you make comments like these.
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dextrous

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2008, 05:22:05 AM »

Looks like Palin kicked some butt today. Thoughts?
Did not see the debate ..but will see a replay either later today or tomorrow. Wife (and a liberal friend of mine) say that she did very well.

lol...either your wife/friend do not follow politics closely or they were fooled by her annoying b***h style.

the woman was spouting off random learned speeches rather than answering the question. ya, she didnt come across as a total moron like some expected her to, but thats because she didnt actually try answering any questions.

rote memorization=a+...sort of like the kota candidates you dislike
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dextrous

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2008, 05:25:28 AM »

Palin did prove today she is as clueless as a donkey when it comes to world affairs - she didn't 'answer' anything but made sure that she rattled off all the carefully rehearsed lines that were prepared for her, accompanied by winks and cutesy smiles.

sheesh! are americans *this* dumb? yes, they are!
Yep.. they are going to elect the new incarnation of Jesus Christ - who is so clued in ;D ;D

seriously, you find Sarah Palin a qualified candidate? i am amazed if you do.

I dont find her qualified.. neither do i find Obama (he is a hope monger with no accomplishments to boot)...and he is fighting for the top of the ticket. None of the 4 are qualified or even more or less qualified than each other. That is the central shame of this campaign. The only reason I support the democrats in this election is because I want the incompetent republicans thrown out.. knowing fully well the policies of Obama (at least the stated ones.. which change by the day and the audience he talks to) are going to hurt the country...but we are living in very perilous times and the need for a messiah is paramount because only prayers can save us now .. and no one can lead us better in that than the son of god.


Really, what major policies offering has he changed? His policies are almost identical to Hillary's sans the health care plan. Abs. the same. And whats going to hurt the economy?

"None of the 4 are qualified or even more or less qualified than each other."
This is just absurd. Really? Biden, Obama, McCain are as unqualified as the point guard from HS?
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LosingNow

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2008, 05:26:51 AM »


rote memorization=a+...sort of like the kota candidates you dislike
I do not dislike kota candidates.. that is harsh. I just don't find them meeting our requirements. they are all wonderful, qualified people.

I will watch the debate and let you know.. I agree my wife does not follow politics (which is like most people in this country)..but this liberal friend of mine, is a keen and dedicated follower and he is a tough grader of politicians ;D
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dextrous

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2008, 05:29:53 AM »


rote memorization=a+...sort of like the kota candidates you dislike
I do not dislike kota candidates.. that is harsh. I just don't find them meeting our requirements. they are all wonderful, qualified people.

I will watch the debate and let you know.. I agree my wife does not follow politics (which is like most people in this country)..but this liberal friend of mine, is a keen and dedicated follower and he is a tough grader of politicians ;D


pay close attention to the question being asked...she kept confusing me as to what the question was.
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kban1

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2008, 05:36:01 AM »

Quote
I dont find her qualified.. neither do i find Obama (he is a hope monger with no accomplishments to boot)...and he is fighting for the top of the ticket. None of the 4 are qualified or even more or less qualified than each other. That is the central shame of this campaign.

Your version of Fox news ?? Fair & balanced !!

For the umpteenth time, not all inexperience is the same.

and do not sully McCain, Biden or Obama by mentioning them in the same sentence with unqualified comments such as

"None of the 4 are qualified or even more or less qualified than each other"

-- this is patently false, and you of all people should know that. This logic would put even a Palin apologist to shame.

Fact of the matter is Palin is utterly unqualified --not just from an experience standpoint, but from a preparation standpoint, from a knowledge standpoint, and from an intellectual capacity standpoint (yes, I am calling her a dumb bimbo).

And you should really look into Obama legislative record --both in IL and in the Senate before equating him with Palin -- on any count.

While BO's experience is a weakness compared to Mc Or Biden, your statement above is a distortion.

And as far as waffling to suit the audience (the charge that you level against BO), maybe its time to dig into the closet of your home grown Goldwater wannabe  ::Whip::
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dextrous

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2008, 05:39:03 AM »

this was by far the best example that nothing she said was on the spur of the moment...everything was rehearsed...

after bident talked about his tragedy (after palin hinted he doesnt know how to raise children or something)...she went straight to a rehearsed line rather than showing any compassion

from a diary at kos

----------
How Sarah Palin Lost the Debate
by JBtakenote
Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:05:21 PM PDT
UPDATED (x4) - Keith did bring it up, with Rachel Maddow and Pat Buchanan.  Rachel pointed out that Palin's response was tone-deaf.  Buchanan didn't comment on Palin's response but thought it was a good moment for Biden.

UPDATED (x3) - Now Keith Obermann is about to discuss this as well.  Better than viral, I think.

UPDATED (x2) - My first rec'd diary - and I am truly touched.  You'll understand when you read it.  I note, too, that Palin only started talking about special needs children after Senator Biden had his moment remembering his own pain.  I might be wrong, though, so somebody correct me if I am.

UPDATED with correct number of Palin children.

I absolutely promised myself I was not going to mention this in a blog post, ever.  But, there was that moment in the debate that had me so livid..so incredibly livid, that I have to put in my two cents.

Usually I analyze.  This is not an analysis because my response was too visceral.  I'll explain.

JBtakenote's diary :: ::
This evening, Joe Biden had a moment that I can really, personally relate two.  He was talking about understanding how it is to have a child in jeopardy when he choked up.  Of course, he was referring to his own personal tragedy - his loss of a child and his wife in a car accident, along with the critical injury of two more children.

I lost 3 children with my first wife many years ago.  They were triplets born at 22 and 1/2 weeks.  Old enough to try to breathe, but with no lungs to breathe with.  None of them survived more than minutes.  Each had a name, and each still stays with me - even as I am years past this with a wonderful family now.  It was more than devestating, it made my first wife crazy, and destroyed that marriage.

Now, I'm not telling all of you this to engender sympathy.  As I mentioned, I now have a wonderful, full life with an incredible wife and beautiful children.  I'm bringing this up, because of what that experience was - and how horrendous it was that Sarah You-Betcha ignored it.

It is the worst thing that any adult could ever go through, and every parent - thankfully most never experience it - but they all know that's the case.  I'm assuming that includes Sarah Palin, since she has five children.

But her response - well, her response was to not even acknowledge that this very authentic, very real man - a candidate with no veneer - had suffered through this and that it still hurt.  No, "I'm so sorry for your loss" or any compassion of any kind.  Rather, she talked about how she and McCain were mavericks.

It was so blatant and stupid.  And I wouldn't have blamed Joe Biden if he had walked across the stage and slapped her.  And she surely deserved it.

More importantly, it was at that moment - the very moment when it was time to be a "compassionate conservative," she acted just like the valley girl teenager she speaks like.  And it is that immature stupidity is how she lost the debate.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 05:49:12 AM by dextrous »
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LosingNow

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2008, 05:42:12 AM »

And you should really look into Obama legislative record --both in IL and in the Senate before equating him with Palin -- on any count.
How many legislations did he propose and pass.. and what were they?
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pipsqueak

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2008, 05:44:23 AM »

And you should really look into Obama legislative record --both in IL and in the Senate before equating him with Palin -- on any count.
How many legislations did he propose and pass.. and what were they?

he would, at the very least know the difference between Hamas and Hummus, unlike this dumb belle.
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kban1

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2008, 05:45:35 AM »

And you should really look into Obama legislative record --both in IL and in the Senate before equating him with Palin -- on any count.
How many legislations did he propose and pass.. and what were they?

Look through the threads --prfsr posted links to a site where the guy actually took the pain of finding out what legislations he has authored, co authored, or been a sponsor on.

You would be surprised at the depth of the issues he has tackled. Most issues Sarah Palin wouldnt know the exististence of, even if she were hit in the rear by them.
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dextrous

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2008, 05:50:24 AM »

And you should really look into Obama legislative record --both in IL and in the Senate before equating him with Palin -- on any count.
How many legislations did he propose and pass.. and what were they?

he would, at the very least know the difference between Hamas and Hummus, unlike this dumb belle.


good one! i mean how can you compare the editor of harvard law review with ms. i-dont-read-newspapers-dont-know-any-court-cases
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LosingNow

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2008, 05:51:26 AM »


While BO's experience is a weakness compared to Mc Or Biden, your statement above is a distortion.

Here is Obama's resume.. tell me if you will hire him as a 1st level manager in your company let alone CEO of the country...

Education

Undergraduate

Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA
Undergraduate, 1981-1983

Columbia University
B.A. Political Science with specialization in international relations
Thesis topic: Soviet nuclear disarmament

Graduate

Harvard Law School
J.D. magna cum laude 1988-1991

President, Harvard Law Review

Organizing and other work experience

1983-1984 Writer/Researcher for Business International Corporation. Helped companies understand overseas markets in the “Financing Foreign Operations” service and wrote for the “Business International Money Report”
1984-1985 Community Organizer for New York Public Interest Research Group (PIRG), promoting personal, community, and government reform at City College in Harlem.
1985-1988 Director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland on Chicago's South Side. While director grew the DCP staff from 1 to 13 and their budget from $70,000 to $400,000.
1992 Led Chicago's Project Vote! push. This effort resulted in a record number of voter registrations, over 600,000 in Chicago. 1)

Teaching

1993-2004 Visiting Law and Government Fellow, then Senior Lecturer, in Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School. Taught courses on the due process and equal protection areas of constitutional law, on voting rights, and on racism and law. Helped develop a casebook on voting rights.

Law Practice

1993-2002 Worked as an associate attorney with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland. Represented non-profits and private individuals in urban development projects, voting rights cases, and wrongful firings. Filed major suit that forced the state of Illinois to enforce the Motor Voter Law and successfully argued a wrongful firing case before the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Illinois Senate 1996-2004

Chairman, Health and Human Services Committee
Spearheaded a successful bipartisan effort in Illinois to pass the broadest ethics-reform legislation in 25 years, and gained bipartisan support for his successful bills reforming death penalty interrogations and ending racial profiling by police. Worked with the Republican-led effort to reform welfare.
Also sponsored successful bills expanding tax credits and child-care subsidies for low-income working families, protecting overtime pay for workers, expanding health care for children, and providing job skills training for juveniles.
United States Senate 2004-present

Member, Senate Foreign Relations Committee
Chairman, Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs
Member, Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
Member, Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
Member, Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs
Shares responsibility for the bipartisan Coburn-Obama Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006, requiring full online disclosure of all entities receiving federal funds, and the bipartisan Lugar-Obama Cooperative Proliferation Detection, Interdiction Assistance, and Conventional Threat Reduction Act of 2006, deepening non-proliferation work with WMD and including surface-to-air missiles, land mines, and other weapons that may be used by terrorists. Also worked with Coburn to end the abuse of no-bid contracts in the wake of disasters.

Sponsored Bill Statistics

Number of sponsored bills: 70
Number of sponsored bills passed: 2
Number of co-sponsored bills: 404
Number of co-sponsored bills passed: 8

---

red flags - no significant accomplishments, changes job frequently, tries things (doesnt stick to one thing) but never takes them to fruition and when time has come that he is expected to deliver changes job. No job relevant legislative experience.

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pieterSAN

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2008, 05:52:03 AM »

Comparisions to Elle Woods were made last week by some bloggers...based on the debate it seems like Elle Woods would be a better candidate.

This is the first one I read....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/poor-sarah/

Poor Sarah

I spent the past week in New York, helping my mother recover from surgery. It was a new role for me, taking care of my mom. It must, I think, have been somewhat destabilizing.

Perhaps when previously untapped wells of care-for-others are accessed, there’s no stopping the flow. Or perhaps it was just that, after five days locked in stare-downs with my mother’s cat, my eyes were playing tricks on me.

This may explain why, on Tuesday afternoon when I went to The Times Web site and saw the photo of Sarah Palin with Henry Kissinger, a funny thing happened. A wave of self-recognition and sympathy washed over me.

That’s right — self-recognition and sympathy. Rising up from a source deep in my subconscious. I saw a woman fully aware that she was out of her league, scared out of her wits, hanging on for dear life. I saw this in the sag of her back in her serious black suit, in the position of her hands, crossed modestly atop her knees, and in that “Mad Men”-era updo, ever unchanging, like a good luck charm.
Palin and KissingerGovernor Palin met with former Secretary of State Henry A. Kissinger. (Photo: Stan Honda/ AFP-Getty Images)

Why, all of a sudden, was I experiencing this upsurge of concern and kinship? I knew, on the one hand, that this new vision of Palin had to be a mirage. Only a few hours earlier, I’d nodded along knowingly as a band of old-school liberals, gathered in my mother’s apartment to cheer her through her convalescence, tore the Alaska governor apart.

“He’s probably the first Jew she’s ever met,” one older gentleman, who himself had grown up as one of the only Jews in pre-World-War-II Lincoln, Neb., said of her meeting with Kissinger.

“No, there was Joe Lieberman,” his wife reminded him, putting me in a mind of the comedian Sara Benincasa’s utterly hilarious Palin parody, as a chorus of “despicable” and “disgusting” filled the room.

My friend Mary has long said that I have a tendency to develop a Stockholm-Syndrome-like empathy for the people I write about. But I don’t think that’s what was going on here.

I think — before I blinked — I had an actual flash of insight. I think I finally stumbled upon a major piece of the puzzle of how it is that so many Republican women can so passionately claim that Sarah Palin is someone they relate to. (It’s worth noting that polls have definitively shown that John McCain’s Palin gambit has not paid off in attracting disgruntled Democratic women voters.)

That the women who agree with Palin would also like her is not surprising. But the whole business of relating? That has remained mysterious for me. What, I’ve wondered, could the kinds of suburban moms I met, for example, at the McCain-Palin rally in Virginia, some of them former professionals with just two children apiece, one a former grad student making links between Palintology and the work of Homi Bhabha, have in common with a moose-killing Alaska frontierswoman with her five kids, five colleges and pastoral protection from witchcraft?

I think I’ve seen it now. In her own folded hands, her hopeful, yet sinking posture, her eager-to-please look. Sarah Palin is their — dare I say our? — inner Elle Woods.

I had thought of Elle Woods, the heroine of the 2001 and 2003 “Legally Blonde” and “Legally Blonde 2” films, a great deal during the week that Palin became McCain’s running mate and made her appearance at the Republican National Convention. The thoughts didn’t actually originate with Palin; my daughter Julia had recently discovered the soundtrack of “Legally Blonde: the Musical” and then the movies that inspired the Broadway show.

Re-watching the movies with Julia, I’d been surprised at how time, and motherhood, had tempered my affection for Elle Woods — a frilly, frothy blonde who charms her way into Harvard Law School and takes the stodgy intellectual elitists there by storm with her Anygirl decency and non-snooty (and not-so-credible) native intelligence.

I’d found the “Legally Blonde” movies fun the first time around. Viewing them in the company of an enraptured 11-year-old, who’d declared Elle her new “role model” after months of dreaming of growing up to be a neuroscientist in a long braid and Birkenstocks, was another story.

“You can’t,” I’d admonished Julia, “accomplish anything worthwhile in life just by being pretty and cute and clever. You have to do the work.”

“It’s just fun, Mom,” she protested.

Right.

You don’t have to be perennially pretty in pink — and ditsy and cutesy and kinda maybe stupid — to have an inner Elle Woods. Many women do. I think of Elle every time I dress up my insecurities in a nice suit. So many of us today — balancing work and family, treading water financially — feel as if we’re in over our heads, getting by on appearances while quaking inside in anticipation of utter failure. Chick lit — think of Bridget Jones, always fumbling, never quite who she should be — and in particular the newer subgenre of mom lit are filled with this kind of sentiment.

You don’t have to be female to suffer from Impostor Syndrome either — I learned the phrase only recently from a male friend, who puts a darned good face forward. But I think that women today — and perhaps in particular those who once thought they could not only do it all but do it perfectly, with virtuosity — are unique in the extent to which they bond over their sense of imposture.

I saw this feeling in Palin — in a flash, on that blue couch, catty-corner to Kissinger, as her eyes pleaded for clemency from the camera. I’ll bet you anything that her admirers — the ones whose hearts really and truly swell with a sense of kinship to her — see or sense it in her, too. They know she can’t possibly do it all — the kids, the special-needs baby, the big job, the big conversations with foreign leaders. And neither could they.

The “Legally Blonde” fairy tales spin around the idea that, because Elle believes in herself, she can do anything. Never mind the steps that she skips. Never mind the fact that — in the rarefied realms of Harvard Law and Washington policymaking — she isn’t the intellectual equal of her peers. Self-confidence conquers all! (“Of course she doesn’t have that,” said Laura Bush of Palin this week when asked if the vice presidential pick had sufficient foreign policy experience. “You know, that’s not been her role. But I think she is a very quick study.”)

Real life is different, of course, from Hollywood fantasy. Incompetence has consequences, political and personal. Glorifying or glamorizing the sense of just not being up to the tasks of life has consequences, too. It means that any woman who exudes competence will necessarily be excluded from the circle of sisterhood. We can’t afford any more of that.

Frankly, I’ve come to think, post-Kissinger, post-Katie-Couric, that Palin’s nomination isn’t just an insult to the women (and men) of America. It’s an act of cruelty toward her as well.
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pieterSAN

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2008, 05:54:45 AM »

Another one below....which also takes the liberty of comparing her to America's favorite beauty pageant contestant.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://blogs.knoxnews.com/knx/granju/2008/09/sarah-palin-as-elle-woods.html

Sarah Palin as Elle Woods

My sister first noticed it. Watching Sarah Palin's perky, yet vacuous and sometimes, completely nonsensical answers to Katie Couric's interview questions yesterday, my sister said, "Those were beauty pageant contestant answers she gave." And I realized my sister was dead-on right. That's exactly who Palin sounded like in the Couric interview, a former Miss Wasilla.
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dextrous

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2008, 06:00:43 AM »


While BO's experience is a weakness compared to Mc Or Biden, your statement above is a distortion.

Here is Obama's resume.. tell me if you will hire him as a 1st level manager in your company let alone CEO of the country...

Education

Undergraduate

Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA
Undergraduate, 1981-1983

Columbia University
B.A. Political Science with specialization in international relations
Thesis topic: Soviet nuclear disarmament

Graduate

Harvard Law School
J.D. magna cum laude 1988-1991

President, Harvard Law Review

Organizing and other work experience

1983-1984 Writer/Researcher for Business International Corporation. Helped companies understand overseas markets in the “Financing Foreign Operations” service and wrote for the “Business International Money Report”
1984-1985 Community Organizer for New York Public Interest Research Group (PIRG), promoting personal, community, and government reform at City College in Harlem.
1985-1988 Director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland on Chicago's South Side. While director grew the DCP staff from 1 to 13 and their budget from $70,000 to $400,000.
1992 Led Chicago's Project Vote! push. This effort resulted in a record number of voter registrations, over 600,000 in Chicago. 1)

Teaching

1993-2004 Visiting Law and Government Fellow, then Senior Lecturer, in Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School. Taught courses on the due process and equal protection areas of constitutional law, on voting rights, and on racism and law. Helped develop a casebook on voting rights.

Law Practice

1993-2002 Worked as an associate attorney with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland. Represented non-profits and private individuals in urban development projects, voting rights cases, and wrongful firings. Filed major suit that forced the state of Illinois to enforce the Motor Voter Law and successfully argued a wrongful firing case before the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Illinois Senate 1996-2004

Chairman, Health and Human Services Committee
Spearheaded a successful bipartisan effort in Illinois to pass the broadest ethics-reform legislation in 25 years, and gained bipartisan support for his successful bills reforming death penalty interrogations and ending racial profiling by police. Worked with the Republican-led effort to reform welfare.
Also sponsored successful bills expanding tax credits and child-care subsidies for low-income working families, protecting overtime pay for workers, expanding health care for children, and providing job skills training for juveniles.
United States Senate 2004-present

Member, Senate Foreign Relations Committee
Chairman, Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs
Member, Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
Member, Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
Member, Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs
Shares responsibility for the bipartisan Coburn-Obama Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006, requiring full online disclosure of all entities receiving federal funds, and the bipartisan Lugar-Obama Cooperative Proliferation Detection, Interdiction Assistance, and Conventional Threat Reduction Act of 2006, deepening non-proliferation work with WMD and including surface-to-air missiles, land mines, and other weapons that may be used by terrorists. Also worked with Coburn to end the abuse of no-bid contracts in the wake of disasters.

Sponsored Bill Statistics

Number of sponsored bills: 70
Number of sponsored bills passed: 2
Number of co-sponsored bills: 404
Number of co-sponsored bills passed: 8

---

red flags - no significant accomplishments, changes job frequently, tries things (doesnt stick to one thing) but never takes them to fruition and when time has come that he is expected to deliver changes job. No job relevant legislative experience.



let me help you out here...

"Harvard Law School
J.D. magna cum laude"

this can take him to almost anywhere he wants. harvard. law.

can you please list qualifications for president as you'd like them?
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kban1

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2008, 06:03:43 AM »


While BO's experience is a weakness compared to Mc Or Biden, your statement above is a distortion.

Here is Obama's resume.. tell me if you will hire him as a 1st level manager in your company let alone CEO of the country...

Education

Undergraduate

Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA
Undergraduate, 1981-1983

Columbia University
B.A. Political Science with specialization in international relations
Thesis topic: Soviet nuclear disarmament

Graduate

Harvard Law School
J.D. magna cum laude 1988-1991

President, Harvard Law Review

Organizing and other work experience

1983-1984 Writer/Researcher for Business International Corporation. Helped companies understand overseas markets in the “Financing Foreign Operations” service and wrote for the “Business International Money Report”
1984-1985 Community Organizer for New York Public Interest Research Group (PIRG), promoting personal, community, and government reform at City College in Harlem.
1985-1988 Director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland on Chicago's South Side. While director grew the DCP staff from 1 to 13 and their budget from $70,000 to $400,000.
1992 Led Chicago's Project Vote! push. This effort resulted in a record number of voter registrations, over 600,000 in Chicago. 1)

Teaching

1993-2004 Visiting Law and Government Fellow, then Senior Lecturer, in Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School. Taught courses on the due process and equal protection areas of constitutional law, on voting rights, and on racism and law. Helped develop a casebook on voting rights.

Law Practice

1993-2002 Worked as an associate attorney with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland. Represented non-profits and private individuals in urban development projects, voting rights cases, and wrongful firings. Filed major suit that forced the state of Illinois to enforce the Motor Voter Law and successfully argued a wrongful firing case before the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Illinois Senate 1996-2004

Chairman, Health and Human Services Committee
Spearheaded a successful bipartisan effort in Illinois to pass the broadest ethics-reform legislation in 25 years, and gained bipartisan support for his successful bills reforming death penalty interrogations and ending racial profiling by police. Worked with the Republican-led effort to reform welfare.
Also sponsored successful bills expanding tax credits and child-care subsidies for low-income working families, protecting overtime pay for workers, expanding health care for children, and providing job skills training for juveniles.
United States Senate 2004-present

Member, Senate Foreign Relations Committee
Chairman, Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs
Member, Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
Member, Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
Member, Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs
Shares responsibility for the bipartisan Coburn-Obama Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006, requiring full online disclosure of all entities receiving federal funds, and the bipartisan Lugar-Obama Cooperative Proliferation Detection, Interdiction Assistance, and Conventional Threat Reduction Act of 2006, deepening non-proliferation work with WMD and including surface-to-air missiles, land mines, and other weapons that may be used by terrorists. Also worked with Coburn to end the abuse of no-bid contracts in the wake of disasters.

Sponsored Bill Statistics

Number of sponsored bills: 70
Number of sponsored bills passed: 2
Number of co-sponsored bills: 404
Number of co-sponsored bills passed: 8

---

red flags - no significant accomplishments, changes job frequently, tries things (doesnt stick to one thing) but never takes them to fruition and when time has come that he is expected to deliver changes job. No job relevant legislative experience.



WN:

Please read my comment above -- I compared Obama with Palin, a woman who is completely out of her depth in everything.

With regards to whether I would hire him or not --

does a resume capture everything ? if it did wouldnt you have hired a KOTA candidate ?

Let me put it this way -- definitely for a 1st level manager.

CEO - not sure because I need to examine even more. But I would not be averse to it, based on what I know of him till date.

PS 1: Your criticisms of him changing jobs too often or not seeing things to fruition are very inapplicable considering the differences between corporate governance and political governance -- I dont think this is even a legit criticism, especially after the reason for his switch has been explored on this DG via the writings of someone not too sympathetic to him.

PS2: Touting the no of bills passed as opposed to the number sponsored /authored /coauthored is a cheap political gimmick. A member of the legislature is dependent on getting votes, overcoming objections of the opposition party (which incidentally controlled Congress), getting past a veto before his bill passes. Not exactly comparable to the kind of power a President has. Furthermore, if the argument is about qualification and experience, it would behoove you to look at the topics those 474 bills dealt with rather than look at a piece of statistic (passing of bills) that is a horrible benchmark to base judgment on, taking into consideration the ground realities of legislative success.

PS 3: I have seen far worse people get hired and promoted in corporate America, so I dont know whwther your question is a perfectly normal question or not.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 06:09:07 AM by kban1 »
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pipsqueak

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2008, 06:06:28 AM »

Who won the US vice-presidential debate?
(from across the pond..)

Joe Biden and Sarah Palin met in St Louis on Thursday night for the vice-presidential debate. Who came out ahead?
guardian.co.uk,

Friday October 03 2008 03:49 BST   

19.7%  Sarah Palin 
80.3%  Joe Biden

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dextrous

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2008, 06:07:56 AM »

"red flags - no significant accomplishments, changes job frequently, tries things (doesnt stick to one thing) but never takes them to fruition and when time has come that he is expected to deliver changes job. No job relevant legislative experience."

all this shows me is that you have an irrationate hate for this guy, probably from the primary days. you must be joking when you say he changes jobs frequently. almost 80% of americna politicians have done the same type of things before they take office--community/army work, law school, state senate/governor, us senate/governor. and he hasn't delivered results?! his work as a community organizer is rather commendable and he was more than a decent lawyer. he taught at a top law school. his senate experience is short but as dick cheney has showed us, senate exp does not equal good exec.

not at all sure i understand your point. his qualifications are fairly typical of most american politicians.
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dave_dj

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2008, 07:06:59 AM »

Looks like Palin kicked some butt today. Thoughts?

Do you always get it wrong?
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prfsr

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2008, 11:39:05 AM »

Dex,
Please do not mention Kota students in the same breath as Palin. I can assure you, people who have qualified through JEE may not be as accomplished as other peers who have *similar ranks* -- but I am willing to bet they are smart peoiple who would breeze through a MS degree at Stanford/Harvard. Palin would not get into the journalism program (her major) in any of those schools.

As far as not being the CEO - I am not in management but I would agree that a Harvard topper would not find too many doors closed  in this country. As far as not being in the same job for long -- the guy taught law with a full time course load for 12 years. And found time to do other significant things. Not something desirable in  CEO I am sure. They should be busy negotiating L-O-N-G five year contracts and huge golden parachutes.   
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 12:33:19 PM by prfsr »
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ramshorns

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2008, 11:40:25 AM »

The first time ever I felt I could take on a VP'tial candidate in a debate and win.  And that was last night when I saw Palin.  She has no depth and utterly underqualified.  What in the hell was McCain thinking?  This has become a joke.  Appeal to the voter base qualified or not get into the office and play the power game.  I could see U.S. diminishing as a country in 20 years the path they are going down on.  8 years of Bush has set them back 25 years and with McCain/Palin the mission would be complete.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 11:42:03 AM by ramshorns »
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prfsr

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2008, 01:06:27 PM »

This debate follows the path adopted by republicans and impotently accepted by Democrats - the dumbing down of America. As we speak school and college curricula are being dumbed down and professors inflate students' grades because the students are the customers in the marketplace called the University and customers are always right.

Yesterday we are treated to a matchup less exciting than Kolkata Knight Riders vs CP's Chicago weekend XI. Then we are told that CP's team is not going to listen to the umpire -- she would not provide the answers  "the moderator wants," or what Joe Biden might want to hear, but she'd "talk straight" to the American people. We would never accept (post WG Grace) the fact that a betsman would bat on for the crowd irrespective of how many times he was out. We would never accept the batsman ignoring the bowler and asking his non-striker to lob balls that he can hit but we argue that Palin did creditably.

Our children, sitting alongside, get the picture that it is okay not to play by the rules or even be aware of them. It is okay to let folksiness be a substitute for qualification, that it is dangerous to be well-studied and -- this is the one I like the most -- "professorial" is a bad word! And a very negative quality to boot. 
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OldPal

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Re: Palin kicks Biden's backside
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2008, 01:09:04 PM »

I think she did far better then was expected out of her. Even though Biden won(as expected). I think she avoided here weaknesses and focussed on the memorised historical data where she can't stammer.
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