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RicePlateReddy

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How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« on: August 12, 2008, 03:14:18 PM »

BEIJING (AFP) - The little girl who starred at the Olympic opening ceremony was miming and only put on stage because the real singer was not considered attractive enough, the show's musical director has revealed.
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Pigtailed Lin Miaoke was selected to appear because of her cute appearance and did not sing a note, Chen Qigang, the general music designer of the ceremony, said in an interview with a state broadcaster aired Tuesday.

Photographs of Lin in a bright red party dress were published in newspapers and websites all over the world and the official China Daily hailed her as a rising star on Tuesday.

But Chen said the girl whose voice was actually heard by the 91,000 capacity crowd at the Olympic stadium during the spectacular ceremony was in fact seven-year-old Yang Peiyi, who has a chubby face and uneven teeth.

"The reason why little Yang was not chosen to appear was because we wanted to project the right image, we were thinking about what was best for the nation," Chen said in an interview that appeared briefly on the news website Sina.com before it was apparently wiped from the Internet in China.

Lin was seen to perform the patriotic song "Ode to the Motherland" as China's national flag was carried into the stadium, a key moment in the three hour ceremony.

"The reason was for the national interest. The child on camera should be flawless in image, internal feelings, and expression," said Chen, a renowned contemporary composer and French citizen.

"Lin Miaoke is excellent in those aspects. But in terms of voice, Yang Peiyi is perfect, each member of our team agreed," he said.

He said the final decision to stage the event with Lin lip-synching to another girl's voice was taken after a senior member of China's ruling Communist Party politburo attended a rehearsal.

"He told us there was a problem that we needed to fix it, so we did," he said, without disclosing further details of the order.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080812/ts_afp/oly2008chinaceremonysongfake_080812123027


[I think at some point it is better to not stage the Olympics if this is what it takes. These folks in general seem to have a massive inferiority complex]
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pipsqueak

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2008, 10:51:06 PM »

how SICK!

did any one wonder what effect would this have on that 7 year old true star? i was admiring that little girl, her poise and talent.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 10:53:20 PM by pipsqueak »
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2008, 11:46:30 PM »

Every "women's" gymnastics medal that China earns comes at a tremendous price. They might as well call it girl's gymnastics. These girls are so young and have probably been put to the grind from when they were 5. I am sure some get miserable injuries. Even those who succeed at the highest level would be going through ridiculous amounts of pressure. Not to forget those who didn't make it to the squad.

I am guessing diving is no different.

I think adult competitive sports that systemically taps into young kids as participants the world over is flawed. And you can bet China have made a fine-art out of it and doctored their ages.
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pipsqueak

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2008, 11:59:23 PM »

the true star on the left - the "flawless one" on the right. i find the former cuter.

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RicePlateReddy

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2008, 12:43:14 AM »

the true star on the left - the "flawless one" on the right. i find the former cuter.

Indeed, and the picture quality is not even the same. And that is called a "chubby face"? Last time I checked, chubby on a 7 year old was a compliment!
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feverpitch

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2008, 01:54:37 AM »

That's the oldest trick in the trade... think of all the kings, despots, presidents etc who have used body doubles... the entire film industry is dependent on this... I mean, where would Lata Mangeshkar go otherwise? Don't the Kat Kaifs of this world use it regularly in their live shows? Kirrrron Kher actually plotted an image makeover and won for herself a national award in film acting by having Ritu'porno' direct her in a 'Bariwali', where crucially, her voice was dubbed by Rita Koyral, who was then airbrushed from memory with lots of money, gifts, and a pliant media, so that, she could then actually visit a numerologist and add the extraaaa 'r's' to her name!

Surely, the Chinese are good, but not that good! Their only advantage is that they look Chinese, which means they all look the same, ;) which makes their using of doubles all the much easier.

As for the 'virtual' fireworks display, that again is simply giving you your money's worth. Why crib about trifles... err.... the reality factor... We are all living in Baudrillard's simulacra... Welcome to the desert of the Real, baby!
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2008, 02:15:37 AM »

Well the ethics of it in general does not irk me -- I am not debating that. And I support the digitally simulated fireworks idea entirely.  The issue here IMO is the age of the child.
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broadbat

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2008, 04:14:05 AM »

Believe me the first impression that I got when I saw the performance was that she was snyching it. But then I never gave it much thought, as I got carried away with the rest of the spectacle. Glad to know that some of my instincts prove to be right from time to time. ;D
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broadbat

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2008, 04:16:44 AM »

Have to now cross check if the Chinese medal winners at the ceremony are the real one or better looking doubles. :P
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pipsqueak

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2008, 04:27:43 AM »

Have to now cross check if the Chinese medal winners at the ceremony are the real one or better looking doubles. :P

the more i think about this lip synch business, the more mad it makes me. i read that zhang yimov was the director of this show - i have lost all respect for him now. how could they kill the self-esteem of an innocent 7 year old kid in this cruel way? 7 year olds are capable of understanding this brush-off and what a crushing blow it must be for the little girl.

it's in national interest to project that 7 year olds have perfect teeth and flawless skin?

sickos!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 04:56:16 AM by pipsqueak »
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dhruvdeepak

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2008, 04:55:25 AM »

pedos
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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2008, 01:39:30 PM »

Have to now cross check if the Chinese medal winners at the ceremony are the real one or better looking doubles. :P
the more i think about this lip synch business, the more mad it makes me. i read that zhang yimov was the director of this show - i have lost all respect for him now. how could they kill the self-esteem of an innocent 7 year old kid in this cruel way? 7 year olds are capable of understanding this brush-off and what a crushing blow it must be for the little girl.
it's in national interest to project that 7 year olds have perfect teeth and flawless skin?
sickos!

The world is a bit of a sicko place isn't it? I mean, here's a guy [Zhang Yimou] whose early claim to fame was for being against the system in a despotic country. To be very frank, having watched all his films from this period once again recently, without the filter of sympathy that normally one is supposed to associate with a 'dissident', I am of the opinion that there is nothing in them to elicit that gushing adulation they have received from the festival audiences in the early '80's.

Then of course he made peace with the politburo, and is now their official face, with the biggest budgets of all Chinese filmmakers, making vacuous spectacles for the US and international market!
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vincent

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2008, 02:02:16 PM »

Every "women's" gymnastics medal that China earns comes at a tremendous price. They might as well call it girl's gymnastics. These girls are so young and have probably been put to the grind from when they were 5. I am sure some get miserable injuries. Even those who succeed at the highest level would be going through ridiculous amounts of pressure. Not to forget those who didn't make it to the squad.

I am guessing diving is no different.

I think adult competitive sports that systemically taps into young kids as participants the world over is flawed. And you can bet China have made a fine-art out of it and doctored their ages.

Well, you do not need to guess. Before the Oylmpics began, BBC showed how they "train" young girls from the ages of 3-5 onwards. For example they were forced to bend backwards 180 degrees until they were screaming and crying in pain. I gave up watching rest of the torture.
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achutank

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2008, 02:10:01 PM »

shouldn't there be a cut-off age of atleast 18 to particpate in the olymicsor any sport for that matter whether it is athletics or tennis?

we have 14 year old bachas on the WTA tour? what happens to them with all that touring and camping in and out of cheap hotels and having no one to be friends? drugs? mental disorders? scars for life?
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flute

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2008, 02:17:17 PM »

I don't understand all the moral indignation here. Afterall, our movies are all about lip synching to songs and also to dialogues of even child artistes. If some adults voice is considered great but not face and are made to remain in the background, why not kids? I think we are giving very little credit to 7 yr olds. A 7 yr old kid can very easily understand it and there is no reason to protect a 7 yr from ground realities when that is what is practiced in real world.

Also, why is all the sympathy going to the actual singer? how about the pigtailed gal who actually appeared? isn't her voice rejected? will it not scar her for the rest of her life? why only face will cause scar and not voice?

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RicePlateReddy

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2008, 03:49:01 PM »

I don't understand all the moral indignation here. Afterall, our movies are all about lip synching to songs and also to dialogues of even child artistes. If some adults voice is considered great but not face and are made to remain in the background, why not kids? I think we are giving very little credit to 7 yr olds. A 7 yr old kid can very easily understand it and there is no reason to protect a 7 yr from ground realities when that is what is practiced in real world.

Also, why is all the sympathy going to the actual singer? how about the pigtailed gal who actually appeared? isn't her voice rejected? will it not scar her for the rest of her life? why only face will cause scar and not voice?

Are you really serious? Have you been close to a 7 year old child (after you became an adult)? I am no softie, but this opinion expressed by you seems so bizarre. This has nothing to do with morality as I mentioned - it has to do with hurting the feelings to the extent of leaving life-long psychological scars. Girls especially are sensitive about their looks and hiding this girl from public view will most likely mess her up completely. In any society, heck even species, protection of the young is paramount. If 7 year olds could deal with ground realities, they can be put into the labor force too (their tiny hands may help). Now wait, China is already doing that ....
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kban1

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2008, 04:20:23 PM »

Quote
I don't understand all the moral indignation here. Afterall, our movies are all about lip synching to songs and also to dialogues of even child artistes. If some adults voice is considered great but not face and are made to remain in the background, why not kids?

Vacuos and inappropriate analogy

The example of moviestars vs musical stars is a choice of profession --specialization.

One young kid substituted for the other on the basis of looks is just that -- beauty over thard work all in the name of image and impression management. It has nothing to do with specialization of expertise -- Beauty is an attribute handed out like cards in a game of poker, singing on the other hand is not -- to a large extent.

Quote
I think we are giving very little credit to 7 yr olds. A 7 yr old kid can very easily understand it and there is no reason to protect a 7 yr from ground realities when that is what is practiced in real world.

Totally off base wrt understanding child pysch, especially that of a girl.

SSL's post summarizes everything thats wrong with your line of argument.

Quote
Also, why is all the sympathy going to the actual singer? how about the pigtailed gal who actually appeared? isn't her voice rejected? will it not scar her for the rest of her life? why only face will cause scar and not voice?

Because she is the one who sang

And got shafted out of the credit by someone else lip synching to it, all because some insecure morons decided to project (indirectly) the superiority of looks (chance) over inculcated musical skills  (hard work)

 :o :o
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flute

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2008, 04:22:07 PM »

I don't understand all the moral indignation here. Afterall, our movies are all about lip synching to songs and also to dialogues of even child artistes. If some adults voice is considered great but not face and are made to remain in the background, why not kids? I think we are giving very little credit to 7 yr olds. A 7 yr old kid can very easily understand it and there is no reason to protect a 7 yr from ground realities when that is what is practiced in real world.

Also, why is all the sympathy going to the actual singer? how about the pigtailed gal who actually appeared? isn't her voice rejected? will it not scar her for the rest of her life? why only face will cause scar and not voice?

Are you really serious? Have you been close to a 7 year old child (after you became an adult)? I am no softie, but this opinion expressed by you seems so bizarre. This has nothing to do with morality as I mentioned - it has to do with hurting the feelings to the extent of leaving life-long psychological scars. Girls especially are sensitive about their looks and hiding this girl from public view will most likely mess her up completely. In any society, heck even species, protection of the young is paramount. If 7 year olds could deal with ground realities, they can be put into the labor force too (their tiny hands may help). Now wait, China is already doing that ....
a. Your looks and your beauty counts in a select few fields in human life.
b. Your looks and your beauty are irrelevant in many areas in life.
c. A lot of insecure people are hung up on skin deep beauty in a lot of unneccessary aspects in life. It is best to ignore these people.

I am sure a  7 yr old can deal with all the 3 points above. A 7 yr old should be made aware of the realities and also taught to deal with it confidently, it doesn't mean we continuosly drill "you are ugly" into their brain without slowly equipping them with the confidence to smile and laugh at even adults who constantly are hung up on skin deep beauty. I do not see any reason to insulate a 7 yr old from these realities. If you look at all those TV shows, Boogie,Woogie etc. you will know what I mean. 7 yr olds are not foolish and IMO it is better to start equipping them to deal with ground realities rather than make them live in Santa Claus reality. I remember this 5 yr old who was tired of this BS adult question (Whom do you like more Mom or Dad?) and responded "I don't know but I sure don't like those who ask that question". I think this over protection and keeping them in Santa Claus reality for as long as possible in the West is foolish. I think we are just assuming that this kid will have some life-long psychological scar. It is all about how a kid is made to deal with it. In fact, think about it, the very fact we think it will leave a scar means we are devoting too much importance to beauty. WHY? so, if a kid is constantly told that she is beautiful will not be scarred for life? WHY? Beauty is simply an accident of life and too much importance should not (edit) be given to the same. A kid can easily be trained along the above thinking instead of insulating them from realities.

Having said all that, I disagree with the chinese authorities in general but not because a kid is involved.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 04:29:00 PM by flute »
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flute

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2008, 04:58:54 PM »

Vacuos and inappropriate analogy

The example of moviestars vs musical stars is a choice of profession --specialization.

One young kid substituted for the other on the basis of looks is just that -- beauty over thard work all in the name of image and impression management. It has nothing to do with specialization of expertise -- Beauty is an attribute handed out like cards in a game of poker, singing on the other hand is not -- to a large extent.
don't assume that I am supporting what was done. I am just questioning the reasons cited. Movies or stage, bottom line is, it is a show. Olympics curtain raiser too was a show for Chinese. One kid will leave that show thinking her voice is no good, another kid will think her beauty is no good.

You are assuming that only lack of beauty will create a scar and you might be right but WHY? Because societies world over attach too much importance to beauty and that in turn makes you feel bad about yourself if you are not really good looking. There is too much pressure on lil gals to look beautiful and "being skin deep" beautiful, vain and giggly is drilled into them by a lot of modern societies. I see this "leaves a scar on the kid" thinking directly flowing from that essential aspect of modern soceities where beauty is very important and if a child thinking it is not the most handsome or most beautiful, all hell breaks loose. Personally I will much rather prefer my kid to not pay too much attention to beauty and if someone tell her she is not the most beautiful in the world, she can simply shrug it off, almost similar to say voice. That is what needs to be cultivated in a kid rather than insulating them from it all.



Quote
Totally off base wrt understanding child pysch, especially that of a girl.

SSL's post summarizes everything thats wrong with your line of argument.
already responded to SSL, so I will ignore this


Quote
Because she is the one who sang
And got shafted out of the credit by someone else lip synching to it, all because some insecure morons decided to project (indirectly) the superiority of looks (chance) over inculcated musical skills  (hard work)
 :o :o
but thats the point. I don't know about you, but a lot of people will watch Lata Mangeshkar singing the background and some beautiful actress like Madhubala dancing to her song instead of Lata dancing on the screen. Thats the reality and that doesn't mean Lata should sulk. You are not giving any reason as to why this reality should be insulated from a kid rather than making the 7 yr old aware of it and made to deal with it. You are only harping on how it is not right to steal the credit from the singer etc. which I did not disagree with in the first place. My only point is, it is wrong in general nothing to do with a kid and is not more wrong because a 7 yr old is involved.

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prfsr

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2008, 05:05:11 PM »

Flute,
As a father I have to disagree. I think you are missing the point that the singer was *supposed* to perform and was then left out - some politburo official came in and said that they had a problem (with looks presumably) that had to be taken care of, and subsequently they found a lip synch-er. I do not think people ever told Lata that she could appear on screen and then subbed her out. And I am not sure if Lataji did playback at 7.

edit: there is also the issue that when Hemanta Mukherjee sang for Uttam Kumar both names were prominently announced. Nobody claimed Uttam was doing his own playback. And yes, a 7-year old not getting due credit is worse than an adult.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 05:07:40 PM by prfsr »
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justforkix

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2008, 05:12:33 PM »

I sense the start of a nuanced exposition here  ;D ;D
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flute

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2008, 05:15:53 PM »

Flute,
As a father I have to disagree. I think you are missing the point that the singer was *supposed* to perform and was then left out - some politburo official came in and said that they had a problem (with looks presumably) that had to be taken care of, and subsequently they found a lip synch-er. I do not think people ever told Lata that she could appear on screen and then subbed her out. And I am not sure if Lataji did playback at 7.

edit: there is also the issue that when Hemanta Mukherjee sang for Uttam Kumar both names were prominently announced. Nobody claimed Uttam was doing his own playback. And yes, a 7-year old not getting due credit is worse than an adult.
so if the chinese announced prominently that so and so sang in the back ground and if the 7 yr old got credit for her voice, it did be ok?
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prfsr

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2008, 05:20:30 PM »

Flute,
As a father I have to disagree. I think you are missing the point that the singer was *supposed* to perform and was then left out - some politburo official came in and said that they had a problem (with looks presumably) that had to be taken care of, and subsequently they found a lip synch-er. I do not think people ever told Lata that she could appear on screen and then subbed her out. And I am not sure if Lataji did playback at 7.

edit: there is also the issue that when Hemanta Mukherjee sang for Uttam Kumar both names were prominently announced. Nobody claimed Uttam was doing his own playback. And yes, a 7-year old not getting due credit is worse than an adult.
so if the chinese announced prominently that so and so sang in the back ground and if the 7 yr old got credit for her voice, it did be ok?

I think it would have been better and if they had planned this from the outset and the participants were aware of it, then I would not complain at all.

edit: I would still have criticized them for being superficial though  ;D
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2008, 05:26:42 PM »

a. Your looks and your beauty counts in a select few fields in human life.
b. Your looks and your beauty are irrelevant in many areas in life.
c. A lot of insecure people are hung up on skin deep beauty in a lot of unneccessary aspects in life. It is best to ignore these people.

I am sure a  7 yr old can deal with all the 3 points above.

That is the crux of our disagreement. I have no confidence that I can educate even a precocious 7 year old on the meaning of "insecurity", let alone the other points you mention. And how much ever I agree with these 3 points, if even I was at the receiving end, it would cause me tremendous hurt.

This is China's greatest event - with several billion viewers and is an unbelievable national obsession. The girl is aware of that. This girl is labeled as not good looking enough. Someone else becomes the face to her efforts in front of this audience (i.e. the world!) "It is best to ignore these people" ? From a practical standpoint these is the country, the system, the world for a 7 year old. It is not one flawed director of ceremonies.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 05:29:23 PM by ShortSquatLeg »
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flute

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2008, 05:40:10 PM »

Flute,
As a father I have to disagree. I think you are missing the point that the singer was *supposed* to perform and was then left out - some politburo official came in and said that they had a problem (with looks presumably) that had to be taken care of, and subsequently they found a lip synch-er. I do not think people ever told Lata that she could appear on screen and then subbed her out. And I am not sure if Lataji did playback at 7.

edit: there is also the issue that when Hemanta Mukherjee sang for Uttam Kumar both names were prominently announced. Nobody claimed Uttam was doing his own playback. And yes, a 7-year old not getting due credit is worse than an adult.
so if the chinese announced prominently that so and so sang in the back ground and if the 7 yr old got credit for her voice, it did be ok?

I think it would have been better and if they had planned this from the outset and the participants were aware of it, then I would not complain at all.

edit: I would still have criticized them for being superficial though  ;D
in that case we are almost on the same page. In general I think parents constantly drilling into kids minds the over importance of skin deep beauty is worse than this particular incident.

Of course I am also criticizing them for being superficial but I am also not about to fully appreciate the this outrage and anger because a 7 yr old is involved may because I don't believe in Santa Cruz type of make believe things for kids.
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Cernunnos

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2008, 05:58:34 PM »

That's the oldest trick in the trade... think of all the kings, despots, presidents etc who have used body doubles... the entire film industry is dependent on this... I mean, where would Lata Mangeshkar go otherwise?

Cricket Club of India, Mumbai?
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2008, 06:08:58 PM »

That's the oldest trick in the trade... think of all the kings, despots, presidents etc who have used body doubles... the entire film industry is dependent on this... I mean, where would Lata Mangeshkar go otherwise?

Cricket Club of India, Mumbai?

Don't fling dung at the poor thing.
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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2008, 06:09:52 PM »


"The reason was for the national interest. The child on camera should be flawless in image, internal feelings, and expression," said Chen,

Much ado about nothing. The above does not mean the girl had to be 'cute', it means that she had to portray the true feeling of the song, which possibly the singer girl was unable to do. Perfectly understandable.
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ruchir

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2008, 06:21:13 PM »

My 2 cents --

The only thing, and I repeat only thing, I found wrong in this whole lip-sync incident is that Chinese tried to hide it. Had Chinese been straight-forward and said that yes, we had the girl lip-sync, it would not have mattered to anyone.

Now about whether it is right or wrong. I don't think there is anything wrong in it. Olympic opening ceremony is a TV event, nothing less than that. When you are staging a TV event, you don't care about sensitivities of anyone or things like that. You do what you have to do to make you event look "good". In that respect, Chinese did what they thought would make their even too better on TV. They replaced a girl with better looking girl. Simple.

Since Olympic opening ceremony is a TV event, let us not bring morality into it. It does not matter how sensitive 7 year old girls are. It does not matter what their father think. It is an event that has to look good because opening ceremony is what leaves a mark on everyone's mind. Opening ceremony defines how you feel about the hosting country. Chinese wanted their opening ceremony to be picture perfect. They did what they had to do, to make it happen. Why should the director of the ceremony worry about what the 7 year old or her parents would think about her being replaced? That is not his job!!! His job is to make the ceremony flawless, and he did what he had to do, to make it so.

And for how hard it is on 7 year olds, it is nothing new. In showbiz, such stuff happens everyday and we accept it and don't even give second thought to it. We take our kids to watch family movies often, don't we? Do we care what kind of hardships, pressures, difficulties those kid actors go through in making of the movie? NO. We just watch the movie, feel happy (if it is good), and come back home satisfied. Olympic opening ceremony is a showbiz event. Blame the parents for bringing kids into showbiz. I mean, guys are feeling sorry for this 7 year old because they used her voice, not face. They are saying how much it would have hurt her. What if she was rejected outright? Would it not have hurt her then? What if she was told on her face the first time, that she was not pretty? Would it not have hurt her then? In showbiz, no one cares about sensitivities. That is the reality and parent of kids (who are trying to make it in showbiz) should keep that in mind BEFORE they bring their kid forward.


Chinese women gymnasts - Do you guys know that parents of these girls actually willingly send them to training camps? Families of these girls get money in return. Their debts are all paid off. They actually live a happy life, after. Yes, govt comes to them (after spotting talent) and asks them to send their girl, but the final decision lies with the parents. Govt does not snatch the girl or threaten the family. Most such parents are poor and they willingly send their girls off. So blame them more than blaming chinese govt.
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prfsr

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2008, 06:27:30 PM »

I am speechless  :notworthy: :notworthy:
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flute

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2008, 06:29:55 PM »

I am speechless  :notworthy: :notworthy:
prfsr saab, some of those bent over salutations better be for me because I brought the contrarian POV to this thread.  :)
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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2008, 06:46:00 PM »

I am speechless  :notworthy: :notworthy:
prfsr saab, some of those bent over salutations better be for me because I brought the contrarian POV to this thread.  :)

But you said you were on the same page as me? So I should bend over saluting my own views???

Contrarian views are fine. Ruchir's post does not fall in that category. 
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RicePlateReddy

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2008, 08:03:02 PM »


"The reason was for the national interest. The child on camera should be flawless in image, internal feelings, and expression," said Chen,

Much ado about nothing. The above does not mean the girl had to be 'cute', it means that she had to portray the true feeling of the song, which possibly the singer girl was unable to do. Perfectly understandable.

"Chen said .... was in fact seven-year-old Yang Peiyi, who has a chubby face and uneven teeth."


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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2008, 08:44:24 PM »


"The reason was for the national interest. The child on camera should be flawless in image, internal feelings, and expression," said Chen,

Much ado about nothing. The above does not mean the girl had to be 'cute', it means that she had to portray the true feeling of the song, which possibly the singer girl was unable to do. Perfectly understandable.


"Chen said .... was in fact seven-year-old Yang Peiyi, who has a chubby face and uneven teeth."





From the entire sentence,

But Chen said the girl whose voice was actually heard by the 91,000 capacity crowd at the Olympic stadium during the spectacular ceremony was in fact seven-year-old Yang Peiyi, who has a chubby face and uneven teeth.

it's not clear whether Chen said this or it's the reporter.
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prfsr

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2008, 08:54:50 PM »


"The reason was for the national interest. The child on camera should be flawless in image, internal feelings, and expression," said Chen,

Much ado about nothing. The above does not mean the girl had to be 'cute', it means that she had to portray the true feeling of the song, which possibly the singer girl was unable to do. Perfectly understandable.


"Chen said .... was in fact seven-year-old Yang Peiyi, who has a chubby face and uneven teeth."





From the entire sentence,

But Chen said the girl whose voice was actually heard by the 91,000 capacity crowd at the Olympic stadium during the spectacular ceremony was in fact seven-year-old Yang Peiyi, who has a chubby face and uneven teeth.

it's not clear whether Chen said this or it's the reporter.

Here's another source

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/2545387/Beijing-Olympics-Faking-scandal-over-girl-who-sang-in-opening-ceremony.html


The girl in the red dress with the pigtails, called Lin Miaoke, 9, and from a Beijing primary school, has become a national sensation since Friday night, giving interviews to all the most popular newspapers.

But the show's musical designer felt forced to set the record straight. He gave an interview to Beijing radio saying the real singer was a seven-year-old girl who had won a gruelling competition to perform the anthem, a patriotic song called "Hymn to the Motherland".

At the last moment a member of the Chinese politburo who was watching a rehearsal pronounced that the winner, a girl called Yang Peiyi, might have a perfect voice but was unsuited to the lead role because of her buck teeth.

So, on the night, while a pre-recording of Yang Peiyi singing was played, Lin Miaoke, who has already featured in television advertisements, was seen but not heard.

"This was a last-minute question, a choice we had to make," the ceremony's musical designer, Chen Qigang, said. "Our rehearsals had already been vetted several times - they were all very strict. When we had the dress rehearsals, there were spectators from various divisions, including above all a member of the politburo who gave us his verdict: we had to make the swap."

Mr Chen's interview gave an extraordinary insight into the control exercised over the ceremony by the Games' political overseers, all to ensure the country was seen at its best.

Officials have already admitted that the pictures of giant firework footprints which marched across Beijing towards the stadium on Friday night were prerecorded, digitally enhanced and inserted into footage beamed across the world.

Mr Chen said the initial hopefuls to sing the anthem had been reduced to ten, and one, a ten-year-old, had originally been chosen for the quality of her voice. But she, too, had fallen by the wayside because she was not "cute" enough.

"We used her to sing in all the rehearsals," Mr Chen said. "But in the end the director thought her image was not the most appropriate, because she was a little too old. Regrettably, we had to let her go."

At that point Yang Peiyi stepped up to the plate.

"The main consideration was the national interest," he said. "The child on the screen should be flawless in image, in her internal feelings, and in her expression. In the matter of her voice, Yang Peiyi was flawless, in the unanimous opinion of all the members of the team."

That was until attention turned to Yang Peiyi's teeth. Nevertheless, Mr Chen thought the end result a perfect compromise.

"We have a responsibility to face the audience of the whole country, and to be open with this explanation," he said. "We should all understand it like this: it is a question of the national interest. It is a question of the image of our national music, our national culture.

"Especially at the entrance of our national flag, this is an extremely important, an extremely serious matter.

"So we made the choice. I think it is fair to both Lin Miaoke and Yang Peiyi - after all, we have a perfect voice, a perfect image and a perfect show, in our team's view, all together."

One question remains: why was Lin Miaoke allowed to give interviews in which she lapped up the praise for her singing. Mr Chen said she might not have known that the words she was singing could not be heard. She had, in fact, only known she was going to perform at all 15 minutes beforehand.

Yang Peiyi is said to have reacted well to the disappointment. "I am proud to have been chosen to sing at all," she is reported to have said.
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Cernunnos

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2008, 09:07:05 PM »

I will take these reports with a pinch of salt until I read Chen's direct quotes.
The girl's looks may or may not have been the sole driving factor (if it did, it is unfortunate).
But Chen did mention feelings and expressions, and those are perfectly valid grounds for making the substitution.
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prfsr

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2008, 09:15:51 PM »

I will take these reports with a pinch of salt until I read Chen's direct quotes.
The girl's looks may or may not have been the sole driving factor (if it did, it is unfortunate).
But Chen did mention feelings and expressions, and those are perfectly valid grounds for making the substitution.

From the Toronto Star

http://olympics.thestar.com/2008/article/477792

BEIJING–Chinese officials defended their decision to pass off the voice of a 7-year-old songbird as that of another girl at the Olympic opening ceremony, calling it a simple casting choice. Critics said it was a step too far in China's obsession with the perfect Olympic Games.

Beijing organizers of the games faced tough criticism Wednesday after a whistleblower revealed that the 9-year-old who performed a song during the spectacular opening ceremony was lip-synching to another girl's vocal track.

Yang Peiyi, a 7-year-old with bright eyes and a smile made crooked by the stubs of her first grown-up teeth, was heard by an audience estimated in the billions during Friday night's ceremony, singing "Ode to the Motherland.''

But they never saw her face.

Organizers passed the song off as being sung by Lin Miaoke, another perky schoolgirl who donned a sparkly red dress and soared on wires above the 91,000-strong crowd at the Bird's Nest stadium.

Beijing officials on Wednesday defended the decision to use both girls, saying the artistic directors could cast whoever they saw fit. And they were unapologetic about keeping the lip-synch a secret.

"There were a number of candidates to sing that song and at the end of the day the artistic directors picked the best voice and the best performer," Beijing organizing committee spokesperson Sun Weide said.

Wang Wei, executive vice president of the organizing committee, said the job of the ceremony's directors was "to achieve the most theatrical effect.''

"I don't see there is anything wrong with it if everybody concerned agrees," he said.

But the world's press ridiculed the move on front pages from Romania to Australia.

"The counterfeit Games: designed to look good from every angle," said a headline in The Times of London. The Daily Telegraph urged organizers of the 2012 London Games to "bring some sanity and proportion back to both the opening ceremony and the games themselves.''

In Spain, one newspaper called it "Olympic karaoke." A commentator for The Age newspaper in Australia called it "the great Beijing lip-synch switcheroo" and news on the incident was headlined "China's wrong child policy." The Romanian daily 7Plus ran this on its front page: "Hoax! Made in China.''

Baltimore Sun reporter Jill Rosen said the switch was hardly the first case of lip-synching, but was "possibly the cruellest.''

New York Magazine called on record executives to give Peiyi a record deal, saying "She's 7! She has buckteeth! She is adorable!''

The Chinese leadership consider the Beijing Olympics a matter of national prestige and the opening extravaganza, attended by a host of leaders including U.S. President George Bush, was intended to wow the world.

"Our president may have gone there just to watch the games. The Chinese leadership does not take that view," said Andrew Nathan, political science department chairman at Columbia University. ``They want to send a message ... the message of flawless execution.''

He said reports that a top official from China's highest decision-making body, the Politburo Standing Committee, demanded Miaoke's voice be dubbed at the last minute "shows once again how political the sponsorship of the Olympics is for the Chinese.''

The secret of Peiyi was revealed Sunday by the ceremony's musical director Chen Qigang in a radio interview. He said a senior Politburo member had said after the final dress rehearsal that Miaoke's voice was not good enough and that Peiyi did not look right.

Chen, a French national, told AP Television News he felt compelled to "to come out with the truth." Peiyi was "a magnificent singer" who "doesn't deserve to be hidden," he said, declining to comment further.

The parents of both girls said separately Wednesday they did not want their daughters to speak to the media, and said each felt privileged just to have taken part.

But many Chinese said Peiyi deserves the spotlight, and some suggested organizers find a place for her in the games closing ceremony Aug. 24.

"This is pretty unfair for the girl who was not picked to perform live," said Cui Fengsi, a Beijing driver-for-hire in comments typical of several people who spoke to The Associated Press on Wednesday, and of numerous blog posts. "This girl has a great voice and they should recognize that she deserves to be seen. She should definitely perform at the closing ceremonies.''

Officials sought to avoid the idea that Peiyi did not appear because she was judged to be not cute enough, suggesting instead that the two girls were a sum greater than their parts.

One International Olympic Committee member, Gilbert Felli, likened the decision to a coach benching one player in favour of another.

"If your son is playing on a football team, suddenly the coach may decide that he's not playing, he's going to stay on the bench," Felli said. "That's what it is in sport, and in life.''

But he added, "The right information has to be given to the people.''

Wang Liping, one of Peiyi's tutors, posted photos of the girl on her blog because she wanted the world to know the face behind the voice.

One photo shows a pretty girl in a white dress with a pink clip in her hair. She appears to be losing her milk teeth, and her new front teeth are only partially grown, and angled slightly. Another shows her rosy-cheeked with fluffy pink toy bunny ears.

Wang said Peiyi was backstage during the opening ceremony and recognized her voice when she heard the song.

Miaoke's father, Lin Hui, said both girls are cute but he agreed that Peiyi's voice was "a bit better" than his daughter's. He said both girls played important roles, but the organizers should have made clear who was singing.

"Letting everybody know is a must," he told the AP.


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prfsr

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2008, 09:23:36 PM »

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080812.wolympics-girls0812/BNStory/beijing2008/


China put another face to Games child singer
CHRIS BUCKLEY
Reuters

August 12, 2008 at 5:06 PM EDT

BEIJING — A pretty girl who shot to fame at China's Olympic opening ceremony was a photogenic front for the real singer, who was rejected appearance-wise in the “national interest,” Chinese media reported on Tuesday.

Nine-year-old Lin Miaoke has been celebrated across China as the angelic voice with the cute face who sang “Ode to the Motherland” at Friday's opening extravaganza.

But a director of the opening ceremony, Chen Qigang, told state television Lin's voice was overdubbed by the singing of the real child singer Yang Peiyi, said the government-run China News Service.

“Yang Peiyi missed out on selection [to appear at the ceremony] because of her external appearance. It was for the national interest,” Mr. Chen was quoted as saying.
China has gone to extraordinary lengths and expense to ensure a picture perfect Games.

An official disclosed on Wednesday that some of the scenes of fireworks broadcast at the opening were pre-recorded.

Among sections pre-recorded were parts of a stunning series of firework “footprints” across Beijing that led to the Bird's Nest stadium where the four-hour spectacular was staged, Games Executive Vice President Wang Wei told reporters.

But getting one child to appear as the face of another was a step too far, some Chinese said in comments posted on the Internet.

“Why worry so much about appearances? All seven-year-olds are angels,” said one.


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prfsr

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2008, 09:34:20 PM »

From the Moskow Times:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/600/42/369798.htm

Olympic Officials Defend Lip-Syncing
14 August 2008
BEIJING -- Olympic officials insisted Wednesday that the decision to have one girl lip-sync another's voice during a song featured in the Beijing Games' opening ceremony was not about who was cuter, but about achieving the best overall performance.

Organizers were put on the defensive after the musical director of last Friday's games curtain raiser revealed the last-minute switch -- the latest embarrassment for officials who have gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure the games are flawless.

In a sparkling red dress, Lin Miaoke, 9, soared on wires above the Bird's Nest national stadium and mouthed the words to "Ode to the Motherland" before 91,000 people attending the ceremony and a worldwide television audience estimated in the billions.

But the voice everybody heard was a prerecorded version of the song by Yang Peiyi, 7, who officials decided sounded better than Lin Miaoke but did not look as good.

Sun Weide, the spokesman for the Beijing organizing committee, said the decision to use both girls was made by the artistic director after consulting with broadcasters, who had recommended the change. He did not name the broadcasters. "I think there were a number of candidates to sing that song and at the end of the day the artistic director picked the best voice and the best performer," Sun told reporters.

Senior International Olympic Committee member Gilbert Felli likened the decision to a sporting coach's choice to put a player on the bench so another could take the field, but suggested that the decision should not have been kept secret.

"I think maybe on this one some people would believe that maybe it was not appropriate, but the others would have said it's fantastic because the performance was great," he said.

"You can have different opinions, but sport is exactly the same," he said. "If your son is playing on a football team, suddenly the coach may decide that he's not playing, he's going to stay on the bench.

"That's what it is in sport and in life."

Olympic officials faced a barrage of questions on Wednesday about the switch, and the families and other representatives of both girls said the two would not be available to speak to news media.

The issue was being widely debated on the Internet in China and on the streets of Beijing, where many people felt the two separate roles should not have been kept secret and that Peiyi should be included in the glitzy closing ceremony scheduled for Aug. 24.

"I don't agree with the decision because they are kids and it may scar them for life," said Li Lin, 41, a marketing worker in Beijing. "I think the girl with the voice should have a chance to perform at the closing ceremonies. It would be a great chance for her to redeem herself to the world."

More ire was directed at the organizers for not going public with the decision, rather than at Miaoke, whose performance was highly praised immediately after the opening ceremony.

Miaoke's father, Lin Hui, said both girls are cute, but he agreed that Peiyi's voice was "a bit better" than his daughter's. He said the roles played by both girls was very important, but that organizers should have released the information. "Letting everybody know is a must," he said Wednesday.

The secret was revealed by Chen Qigang, the opening ceremony's chief musical director, in an interview with state-owned Beijing Radio. He said a senior Politburo member said Miaoke's voice was not good enough for the ceremony but that Peiyi did not look right.

Chen, a French national, later said he felt compelled to "to come out with the truth." Peiyi was "a magnificent singer" who "doesn't deserve to be hidden," he said, before declining to comment further.

Photos of Peiyi on a blog by her tutor show a typically pretty girl in a white dress with a pink clip in her hair. She appears to be losing her milk teeth, and her two new front teeth are only partially grown, and angled slightly.

"Chen's original interview was posted on Beijing Radio's web site Sunday night. By Tuesday the link was shut down. The Chinese government routinely blocks sites that are politically sensitive or that could cause embarrassment to the country's communist rulers.

Lin declined to answer when asked if Peiyi should be included in the closing ceremony, except to say that he was not the director. He said his daughter was not doing any rehearsals and that he presumed she would not be involved in the closing ceremony."
« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 01:22:39 AM by prfsr »
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Cernunnos

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Re: How to stage a successful Olympics - Chinese tip #23
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2008, 09:34:42 PM »

Again, no credible quote where Chen talks about the girl's "chubby face" and "teeth".
This description seems to be the creation of the media.

"external appearance" is too vague. It could mean rigidity in expressions, lack of feelings.

While I am no fan of the Chinese, the lack of class of the Western press in hyping this up is totally distasteful.
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