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JJ

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2006, 04:36:10 AM »

>>>The evidence against Greg Chappel as a congenital liar and an utterlessly vindictive and worthless human being is mounting. I will be waiting for the day it all comes crashing down on him!

>>>

FP,

Where is the evidence ? On the contrary, you come across as having a personal grudge against the man - either that or you'r SG's Dad/Bro or wife !

Your second sentence betrays your vindictive nature as well !
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Jai

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2006, 04:49:25 AM »

Excellent. The BCCI doesn't even blink before they warn players who come in support of SG, but here the coach of the team is not bound by any such gag orders. What a crying shame !!! And when the now infamous email was leaked, many of us including myself have proved that GC didn't ask SG to relinquish the captaincy only, but he asked SG to step down from the side also when he told him which batsmen should play leaving no room for SG. And people still wonder whether there's any truth behind the fact that SG is not in the side because of GC (and partly because of More).
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Jai

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2006, 04:52:44 AM »

>>>The evidence against Greg Chappel as a congenital liar and an utterlessly vindictive and worthless human being is mounting. I will be waiting for the day it all comes crashing down on him!

>>>

FP,

Where is the evidence ? On the contrary, you come across as having a personal grudge against the man - either that or you'r SG's Dad/Bro or wife !

Your second sentence betrays your vindictive nature as well !


Remember the BCCI meeting on the 27th of September chaired by the likes of Gavaskar, Shastri and Venkat where SG came with all the details and evidence of his injury and eventually the BCCI declared that SG was indeed injured thus proving GC a liar who claimed that SG faked injury? 
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sudzz

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2006, 04:53:49 AM »

Ok this interview in many ways is the sanest interviews of GC that I have read. He is not raving and ranting or even saying things like good people or I allow etc...

He is basically making a case to jusify that though he got the job due to SG he had to take hard calls against him to keep his job.On the one hand it seems very selfish and very machivellian yet on the other it seems to be a very pragmatic approach.

The aspersions he is casting on JW may or may not be right but his over all assesment of the situation is something even the most ardent of SG supporters would agree. SG was not adding value either as batsman or as captain in the last one year and that was evident by the spate of selection controversies (especially around the selection of Yuvi and Kaif).

In fact if anything I feel what must have hastened the decision for GC would have been the belaboured 100 that SG scored at Harare or Bulawayo.

In my assesment what GC did in isolation (other than the E-mail fiasco-again not entirely GC's fault) was not the really bad part. But what More and gang did before and after was the worst example of selectoral inefficiency.
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JJ

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2006, 05:15:27 AM »

>>>The evidence against Greg Chappel as a congenital liar and an utterlessly vindictive and worthless human being is mounting. I will be waiting for the day it all comes crashing down on him!

>>>

FP,

Where is the evidence ? On the contrary, you come across as having a personal grudge against the man - either that or you'r SG's Dad/Bro or wife !

Your second sentence betrays your vindictive nature as well !


Remember the BCCI meeting on the 27th of September chaired by the likes of Gavaskar, Shastri and Venkat where SG came with all the details and evidence of his injury and eventually the BCCI declared that SG was indeed injured thus proving GC a liar who claimed that SG faked injury? 

Hey - gimme a break - the only evidence to come out of the mtg was the injury part - rest was as is.
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Jai

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2006, 05:38:04 AM »

>>>The evidence against Greg Chappel as a congenital liar and an utterlessly vindictive and worthless human being is mounting. I will be waiting for the day it all comes crashing down on him!

>>>

FP,

Where is the evidence ? On the contrary, you come across as having a personal grudge against the man - either that or you'r SG's Dad/Bro or wife !

Your second sentence betrays your vindictive nature as well !


Remember the BCCI meeting on the 27th of September chaired by the likes of Gavaskar, Shastri and Venkat where SG came with all the details and evidence of his injury and eventually the BCCI declared that SG was indeed injured thus proving GC a liar who claimed that SG faked injury? 

Hey - gimme a break - the only evidence to come out of the mtg was the injury part - rest was as is.

What was the rest? Care to explain?
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feverpitch

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2006, 06:11:02 AM »

>>>The evidence against Greg Chappel as a congenital liar and an utterlessly vindictive and worthless human being is mounting. I will be waiting for the day it all comes crashing down on him!

>>>

FP,

Where is the evidence ? On the contrary, you come across as having a personal grudge against the man - either that or you'r SG's Dad/Bro or wife !

Your second sentence betrays your vindictive nature as well !


Absolutely! I have never hidden that I do not trust the guy! As for my 1st statement, my bad. I should have added 'circumstantial' before evidence. Thus, my statement shd have read:

The 'circumstantial' evidence against Greg Chappel as a congenital liar and an utterlessly vindictive and worthless human being is mounting. I will be waiting for the day it all comes crashing down on him!
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back2grave

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2006, 06:16:02 AM »

U need to take a break Mr JJ .... ur rationale has li'l or no substance at all, u seemed to be singing in the tunes of MORE, which are always prejudiced and based on a single agenda of anti-SG line...
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proactive

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2006, 06:58:22 AM »

"Tell all" interview from GC


2.
 I told Sourav that if he wanted to save his career he should consider giving up the captaincy. He was just hanging in there. Modest innings were draining him. He had no energy to give to the team, which was helping neither him nor us. It was in his own interest to give himself mind space to work on his batting so that it could be resurrected. He was not prepared to do that. What I didn't realise at that stage was how utterly important to his life and finances being captain was.


Due to comments made by Mr Sourav Ganguly during the press conference
following his innings in the recently completed Test match in Bulawayo
and the subsequent media speculation I would like to make my position
clear on two points.


1. At no stage did I ask Mr Ganguly to step down from the captaincy of
the Indian team
 

 ??? ??? Am I reading differently or is Greg prone to contradictions ??
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Jai

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2006, 07:34:50 AM »

"Tell all" interview from GC


2.
 I told Sourav that if he wanted to save his career he should consider giving up the captaincy. He was just hanging in there. Modest innings were draining him. He had no energy to give to the team, which was helping neither him nor us. It was in his own interest to give himself mind space to work on his batting so that it could be resurrected. He was not prepared to do that. What I didn't realise at that stage was how utterly important to his life and finances being captain was.


Due to comments made by Mr Sourav Ganguly during the press conference
following his innings in the recently completed Test match in Bulawayo
and the subsequent media speculation I would like to make my position
clear on two points.


1. At no stage did I ask Mr Ganguly to step down from the captaincy of
the Indian team
 

 ??? ??? Am I reading differently or is Greg prone to contradictions ??


Excellent catch mate. I am sure some of the people will try to avoid your point. After all, Mr. Chappell has got his priorities right. Ummmmmmmm, and what are those priorities again?
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keep-it-cool

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2006, 12:09:37 PM »

The evidence against Greg Chappel as a congenital liar and an utterlessly vindictive and worthless human being is mounting. I will be waiting for the day it all comes crashing down on him!

keep waiting buddy ...
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keep-it-cool

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2006, 12:13:57 PM »

"Tell all" interview from GC


2.
 I told Sourav that if he wanted to save his career he should consider giving up the captaincy. He was just hanging in there. Modest innings were draining him. He had no energy to give to the team, which was helping neither him nor us. It was in his own interest to give himself mind space to work on his batting so that it could be resurrected. He was not prepared to do that. What I didn't realise at that stage was how utterly important to his life and finances being captain was.


Due to comments made by Mr Sourav Ganguly during the press conference
following his innings in the recently completed Test match in Bulawayo
and the subsequent media speculation I would like to make my position
clear on two points.


1. At no stage did I ask Mr Ganguly to step down from the captaincy of
the Indian team
 

 ??? ??? Am I reading differently or is Greg prone to contradictions ??


I did not quite understand what is the point that you are trying to make. Where did this come from?
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proactive

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2006, 01:00:51 PM »

The first part is the interview in the Guardian. The second is the starting note in his infamous email

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keep-it-cool

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2006, 01:10:09 PM »

On the basis of this and other observations and comments from players in the squad about the unsettling effect Sourav was having on the group I suggested to Sourav that he should consider stepping down from the captaincy at the end of the tour in the interests of the team and in his own best interests if he wanted to prolong his playing career.

If you read the entire text of the email, this also figured in the same. Do not see the contradiciton really ... the first sentence is a clarification that GC did not ask SG to stand down as captain before the first test match ... what he did say to him was that he should consider opening the batting or sitting down, as the middle order is packed with YS and MK making forceful cases to play
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achutank

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2006, 01:29:49 PM »

because ..im the king of the world ... hee

no you are not the king of the world

you are just god ;D

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proactive

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2006, 02:01:33 PM »

On the basis of this and other observations and comments from players in the squad about the unsettling effect Sourav was having on the group I suggested to Sourav that he should consider stepping down from the captaincy at the end of the tour in the interests of the team and in his own best interests if he wanted to prolong his playing career.

If you read the entire text of the email, this also figured in the same. Do not see the contradiciton really ... the first sentence is a clarification that GC did not ask SG to stand down as captain before the first test match ... what he did say to him was that he should consider opening the batting or sitting down, as the middle order is packed with YS and MK making forceful cases to play

"At no stage did I ask Mr Ganguly to step down from the captaincy of the Indian team".....and On the basis of this and other observations and comments from players in the squad about the unsettling effect Sourav was having on the group I suggested to Sourav that he should consider stepping down from the captaincy at the end of the tour

How are the two different ?? The issue is not the first test or asking him to open the innings which GC very well knew would not happen
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bouncer

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2006, 02:07:51 PM »

"I'm not the hard-nosed control freak that I have been portrayed. I'm thorough, a realist, a pragmatist and I'm honest

Honest indeed! After your obscene gesture to the crowd Mr. Chappell, you showed neither courage nor honesty by first offering an admission and then a denial!

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achutank

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2006, 02:25:41 PM »

please we indians need to be shown the finger. or else we will not toe the line.
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arjun

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #58 on: March 01, 2006, 04:28:27 PM »

Like the "giving up captaincy" advice earlier, is GC trying to provoke Ganguly into another impulsive and unwarranted reaction by referring to his finances this time? I think this interview is very deliberate and intent very machiavellian. He is trying to draw out his adversary from his corner and finish him off.
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JJ

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #59 on: March 01, 2006, 04:51:48 PM »

U need to take a break Mr JJ .... ur rationale has li'l or no substance at all, u seemed to be singing in the tunes of MORE, which are always prejudiced and based on a single agenda of anti-SG line...

My  rationale has all the logic -- its just that you don't want to accept it. I have no pro GC feelings
I look at this from a selfish perspective - namely - take anyone's help to get our team to the top
and I believe GC is trying to do that -  no doubt he is cunning,.canny and all that stuff - but it benefits
the team - so why care about 1 guy (SG) who does'nt make the cut anyway ??


No plans to take a break - maybe you shd take one to get some clarity on your concoluted thought process.
Counter question : Why are you so pro-SG ? you shd be pro-Team India.
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JJ

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #60 on: March 01, 2006, 04:55:04 PM »

>>>The evidence against Greg Chappel as a congenital liar and an utterlessly vindictive and worthless human being is mounting. I will be waiting for the day it all comes crashing down on him!

>>>

FP,

Where is the evidence ? On the contrary, you come across as having a personal grudge against the man - either that or you'r SG's Dad/Bro or wife !

Your second sentence betrays your vindictive nature as well !


Remember the BCCI meeting on the 27th of September chaired by the likes of Gavaskar, Shastri and Venkat where SG came with all the details and evidence of his injury and eventually the BCCI declared that SG was indeed injured thus proving GC a liar who claimed that SG faked injury? 

Hey - gimme a break - the only evidence to come out of the mtg was the injury part - rest was as is.

What was the rest? Care to explain?

Sure - its really lenghty - see the email text. Specifically - the one re: Laxman, creating insecurity - you get the drift.
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Jai

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #61 on: March 01, 2006, 05:39:19 PM »

>>>The evidence against Greg Chappel as a congenital liar and an utterlessly vindictive and worthless human being is mounting. I will be waiting for the day it all comes crashing down on him!

>>>

FP,

Where is the evidence ? On the contrary, you come across as having a personal grudge against the man - either that or you'r SG's Dad/Bro or wife !

Your second sentence betrays your vindictive nature as well !


Remember the BCCI meeting on the 27th of September chaired by the likes of Gavaskar, Shastri and Venkat where SG came with all the details and evidence of his injury and eventually the BCCI declared that SG was indeed injured thus proving GC a liar who claimed that SG faked injury? 

Hey - gimme a break - the only evidence to come out of the mtg was the injury part - rest was as is.

What was the rest? Care to explain?

Sure - its really lenghty - see the email text. Specifically - the one re: Laxman, creating insecurity - you get the drift.

Yes I get the drift. But does it mean any of these have been proven? I don't think so. GC saying something against someone has no difference than others saying something against GC too. The last time Bhajji said something, he was immediately warned. Let everyone speak out and then we'll know the truth. The youngstars who are vying for SG's spot still stand by him. So much for creating insecurity. And Laxman has always been a part of the test team, during and after SG. In fact, now we are hearing some rumors about his place being not safe anymore. Funny that GC talked about SG bullying JW although he was nowhere near the dressing room at that time and JW publicly supported SG even after he was no longer the coach. And on almost every interview nowadays, RD is asked whether he's shadow of GC or whether GC is intimidating. Someone should ask GC why he has this image that he bullies everyone.
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JJ

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2006, 05:52:29 PM »

>>>The evidence against Greg Chappel as a congenital liar and an utterlessly vindictive and worthless human being is mounting. I will be waiting for the day it all comes crashing down on him!

>>>

FP,

Where is the evidence ? On the contrary, you come across as having a personal grudge against the man - either that or you'r SG's Dad/Bro or wife !

Your second sentence betrays your vindictive nature as well !


Remember the BCCI meeting on the 27th of September chaired by the likes of Gavaskar, Shastri and Venkat where SG came with all the details and evidence of his injury and eventually the BCCI declared that SG was indeed injured thus proving GC a liar who claimed that SG faked injury? 

Hey - gimme a break - the only evidence to come out of the mtg was the injury part - rest was as is.

What was the rest? Care to explain?

Sure - its really lenghty - see the email text. Specifically - the one re: Laxman, creating insecurity - you get the drift.

Yes I get the drift. But does it mean any of these have been proven? I don't think so. GC saying something against someone has no difference than others saying something against GC too. The last time Bhajji said something, he was immediately warned. Let everyone speak out and then we'll know the truth. The youngstars who are vying for SG's spot still stand by him. So much for creating insecurity. And Laxman has always been a part of the test team, during and after SG. In fact, now we are hearing some rumors about his place being not safe anymore. Funny that GC talked about SG bullying JW although he was nowhere near the dressing room at that time and JW publicly supported SG even after he was no longer the coach. And on almost every interview nowadays, RD is asked whether he's shadow of GC or whether GC is intimidating. Someone should ask GC why he has this image that he bullies everyone.

Thats the point - it has not been proven one way or the other which is why we have to just look ahead and do whats best for the team instead of raking this up time and again - personally, I feel SG's time was up and he is not able to face reality and quit gracefully and thereby harming the larger interests of the team.

I think its a waste of time and energy to get emotional about GC or SG - pro or anti or whatever - lets just move on and win !

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bouncer

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2006, 05:57:34 PM »

.
Counter question : Why are you so pro-SG ? you shd be pro-Team India.


Are these mutually exclusive?

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JJ

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2006, 06:01:18 PM »

.
Counter question : Why are you so pro-SG ? you shd be pro-Team India.


Are these mutually exclusive?



Yeah, bouncer - in this case it is mutually exclusive - one cannot choose the future of an individual
over that of a team.

Not one of us  would have an issue if SG had been batting well for the past 2 yrs or so. In that case
pro SG would be pro India.
He has not been doing well and still wanted to hang on w/captaincy to boot - thats what gets my goat.
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Jai

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2006, 06:10:16 PM »

>>>The evidence against Greg Chappel as a congenital liar and an utterlessly vindictive and worthless human being is mounting. I will be waiting for the day it all comes crashing down on him!

>>>

FP,

Where is the evidence ? On the contrary, you come across as having a personal grudge against the man - either that or you'r SG's Dad/Bro or wife !

Your second sentence betrays your vindictive nature as well !


Remember the BCCI meeting on the 27th of September chaired by the likes of Gavaskar, Shastri and Venkat where SG came with all the details and evidence of his injury and eventually the BCCI declared that SG was indeed injured thus proving GC a liar who claimed that SG faked injury? 

Hey - gimme a break - the only evidence to come out of the mtg was the injury part - rest was as is.

What was the rest? Care to explain?

Sure - its really lenghty - see the email text. Specifically - the one re: Laxman, creating insecurity - you get the drift.

Yes I get the drift. But does it mean any of these have been proven? I don't think so. GC saying something against someone has no difference than others saying something against GC too. The last time Bhajji said something, he was immediately warned. Let everyone speak out and then we'll know the truth. The youngstars who are vying for SG's spot still stand by him. So much for creating insecurity. And Laxman has always been a part of the test team, during and after SG. In fact, now we are hearing some rumors about his place being not safe anymore. Funny that GC talked about SG bullying JW although he was nowhere near the dressing room at that time and JW publicly supported SG even after he was no longer the coach. And on almost every interview nowadays, RD is asked whether he's shadow of GC or whether GC is intimidating. Someone should ask GC why he has this image that he bullies everyone.

Thats the point - it has not been proven one way or the other which is why we have to just look ahead and do whats best for the team instead of raking this up time and again - personally, I feel SG's time was up and he is not able to face reality and quit gracefully and thereby harming the larger interests of the team.

I think its a waste of time and energy to get emotional about GC or SG - pro or anti or whatever - lets just move on and win !



Fine, but is this new interview a sign to move in the right direction? You tell me. Whether the fans are pro/anti SG or pro/anti GC are irrevevelant as long as the people that matter act maturely. How many comments have you seen from SG since that Sept 27th meeting? Was it necessary for GC to say the stuffs he has said in this interview? Do you really get the impression that he has nothing against SG from his side anymore? How a player in SG's shoes is supposed to feel about all these? Now that SG is not in the team, he can say something out of frustration because of the repeated injustice he had to face and also because he's no longer part of the team so he shouldn't bother about the larger interest of the team (but thankfully he hasn't done anything of that sort), but what about the person who is still the coach of the team? And who is raking it up all over again? It's GC. So now you tell me how can it be helpful for the better interest of the team? When you talk about 'raking it up all over again' and 'better interest of the team', you should point your fingers towards GC instead of wondering who is pro-SG on this discussion forum because we don't affect the 'larger interest of the team', but a coach does.
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bouncer

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #66 on: March 01, 2006, 06:12:56 PM »

.
Counter question : Why are you so pro-SG ? you shd be pro-Team India.


Are these mutually exclusive?


Yeah, bouncer - in this case it is mutually exclusive - one cannot choose the future of an individual
over that of a team.

Not one of us  would have an issue if SG had been batting well for the past 2 yrs or so. In that case
pro SG would be pro India.
He has not been doing well and still wanted to hang on w/captaincy to boot - thats what gets my goat.

JJ, IMHO you are mising the point.  Those who now or in the recent past have favored SG's inclusion into the team honestly believe Team India will be a better team with him. You happen to think otherwise, which is India will be a better team without him. Your assumption can easily be turned on its head by saying that someone's anti-SG bias is actually hurting the Indian team and in effect he is being anti-India. But that will be also missing the point. All the guys in this DG are pro-India, otherwise they won't be here.  So instead of telling them that they need to be pro-India, the right thing will be to argue why SG is good or bad for the Indian team.

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Blwe_torch

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #67 on: March 01, 2006, 06:13:46 PM »

GC is a first-class liar and a big  nautanki,
He has proved that he is vindictive, driven by a single-minded personal agenda to maintain his supremacy in the team
Whether he succeeds or not, remains to be seen.
As a man he is rather unreliable.
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Cernunnos

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #68 on: March 01, 2006, 06:25:49 PM »

GC is a first-class liar and a big  nautanki,
He has proved that he is vindictive, driven by a single-minded personal agenda to maintain his supremacy in the team
Whether he succeeds or not, remains to be seen.
As a man he is rather unreliable.

The funny thing is that this man talks about making others "better people" as part of his goal.
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Blwe_torch

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #69 on: March 01, 2006, 06:28:12 PM »

I can assure you, whenever he decides to go back down -under, he will be a thoroughly chastised man!
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Sahir

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #70 on: March 01, 2006, 06:33:24 PM »

.
Counter question : Why are you so pro-SG ? you shd be pro-Team India.


Are these mutually exclusive?


Yeah, bouncer - in this case it is mutually exclusive - one cannot choose the future of an individual
over that of a team.

Not one of us  would have an issue if SG had been batting well for the past 2 yrs or so. In that case
pro SG would be pro India.
He has not been doing well and still wanted to hang on w/captaincy to boot - thats what gets my goat.

JJ, IMHO you are mising the point.  Those who now or in the recent past have favored SG's inclusion into the team honestly believe Team India will be a better team with him. You happen to think otherwise, which is India will be a better team without him. Your assumption can easily be turned on its head by saying that someone's anti-SG bias is actually hurting the Indian team and in effect he is being anti-India. But that will be also missing the point. All the guys in this DG are pro-India, otherwise they won't be here.  So instead of telling them that they need to be pro-India, the right thing will be to argue why SG is good or bad for the Indian team.


This is a brilliant post, especially this part-- "All the guys in this DG are pro-India, otherwise they won't be here.  So instead of telling them that they need to be pro-India, the right thing will be to argue why SG is good or bad for the Indian team."  Great advice, I think, for all of us.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 06:35:01 PM by Sahir »
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flute202020

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2006, 06:49:42 PM »

.
Counter question : Why are you so pro-SG ? you shd be pro-Team India.


Are these mutually exclusive?


Yeah, bouncer - in this case it is mutually exclusive - one cannot choose the future of an individual
over that of a team.

Not one of us  would have an issue if SG had been batting well for the past 2 yrs or so. In that case
pro SG would be pro India.
He has not been doing well and still wanted to hang on w/captaincy to boot - thats what gets my goat.

JJ, IMHO you are mising the point.  Those who now or in the recent past have favored SG's inclusion into the team honestly believe Team India will be a better team with him. You happen to think otherwise, which is India will be a better team without him. Your assumption can easily be turned on its head by saying that someone's anti-SG bias is actually hurting the Indian team and in effect he is being anti-India. But that will be also missing the point. All the guys in this DG are pro-India, otherwise they won't be here.  So instead of telling them that they need to be pro-India, the right thing will be to argue why SG is good or bad for the Indian team.


This is a brilliant post, especially this part-- "All the guys in this DG are pro-India, otherwise they won't be here.  So instead of telling them that they need to be pro-India, the right thing will be to argue why SG is good or bad for the Indian team."  Great advice, I think, for all of us.
Sahir, for once beg to differ. I have seen enough on this DG and outside to think that that sometimes a certain player for some people come before the team. It might be innocent emotion & frustration( both a passing phase) or a misplaced region victimised mentality which is harder to get away with. But to say that everyone on the DG for pro-India simply because they are on the DG is not tenable. sure, if there are no issues and there are no overt issues to think that injustice has been done to a guy, all are pro India.
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JJ

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #72 on: March 01, 2006, 06:53:06 PM »

.
Counter question : Why are you so pro-SG ? you shd be pro-Team India.


Are these mutually exclusive?


Yeah, bouncer - in this case it is mutually exclusive - one cannot choose the future of an individual
over that of a team.

Not one of us  would have an issue if SG had been batting well for the past 2 yrs or so. In that case
pro SG would be pro India.
He has not been doing well and still wanted to hang on w/captaincy to boot - thats what gets my goat.

JJ, IMHO you are mising the point.  Those who now or in the recent past have favored SG's inclusion into the team honestly believe Team India will be a better team with him. You happen to think otherwise, which is India will be a better team without him. Your assumption can easily be turned on its head by saying that someone's anti-SG bias is actually hurting the Indian team and in effect he is being anti-India. But that will be also missing the point. All the guys in this DG are pro-India, otherwise they won't be here.  So instead of telling them that they need to be pro-India, the right thing will be to argue why SG is good or bad for the Indian team.


This is a brilliant post, especially this part-- "All the guys in this DG are pro-India, otherwise they won't be here.  So instead of telling them that they need to be pro-India, the right thing will be to argue why SG is good or bad for the Indian team."  Great advice, I think, for all of us.

Bouncer and Sahir,

I do not doubt that anyone on this DG is pro-India - but a needless amount of time and energy seem to be spent on arguing about 2 guys ...
That is where my comment came from - lets move on and look out for the team
and yes, I happen to think that the latest GC interview was not neded - he should have kept his mouth shut !
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JJ

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #73 on: March 01, 2006, 06:55:17 PM »

>>>The evidence against Greg Chappel as a congenital liar and an utterlessly vindictive and worthless human being is mounting. I will be waiting for the day it all comes crashing down on him!

>>>

FP,

Where is the evidence ? On the contrary, you come across as having a personal grudge against the man - either that or you'r SG's Dad/Bro or wife !

Your second sentence betrays your vindictive nature as well !


Remember the BCCI meeting on the 27th of September chaired by the likes of Gavaskar, Shastri and Venkat where SG came with all the details and evidence of his injury and eventually the BCCI declared that SG was indeed injured thus proving GC a liar who claimed that SG faked injury? 

Hey - gimme a break - the only evidence to come out of the mtg was the injury part - rest was as is.

What was the rest? Care to explain?

Sure - its really lenghty - see the email text. Specifically - the one re: Laxman, creating insecurity - you get the drift.

Yes I get the drift. But does it mean any of these have been proven? I don't think so. GC saying something against someone has no difference than others saying something against GC too. The last time Bhajji said something, he was immediately warned. Let everyone speak out and then we'll know the truth. The youngstars who are vying for SG's spot still stand by him. So much for creating insecurity. And Laxman has always been a part of the test team, during and after SG. In fact, now we are hearing some rumors about his place being not safe anymore. Funny that GC talked about SG bullying JW although he was nowhere near the dressing room at that time and JW publicly supported SG even after he was no longer the coach. And on almost every interview nowadays, RD is asked whether he's shadow of GC or whether GC is intimidating. Someone should ask GC why he has this image that he bullies everyone.

Thats the point - it has not been proven one way or the other which is why we have to just look ahead and do whats best for the team instead of raking this up time and again - personally, I feel SG's time was up and he is not able to face reality and quit gracefully and thereby harming the larger interests of the team.

I think its a waste of time and energy to get emotional about GC or SG - pro or anti or whatever - lets just move on and win !



Fine, but is this new interview a sign to move in the right direction? You tell me. Whether the fans are pro/anti SG or pro/anti GC are irrevevelant as long as the people that matter act maturely. How many comments have you seen from SG since that Sept 27th meeting? Was it necessary for GC to say the stuffs he has said in this interview? Do you really get the impression that he has nothing against SG from his side anymore? How a player in SG's shoes is supposed to feel about all these? Now that SG is not in the team, he can say something out of frustration because of the repeated injustice he had to face and also because he's no longer part of the team so he shouldn't bother about the larger interest of the team (but thankfully he hasn't done anything of that sort), but what about the person who is still the coach of the team? And who is raking it up all over again? It's GC. So now you tell me how can it be helpful for the better interest of the team? When you talk about 'raking it up all over again' and 'better interest of the team', you should point your fingers towards GC instead of wondering who is pro-SG on this discussion forum because we don't affect the 'larger interest of the team', but a coach does.

Agree with you on that one - the latest GC interview was best unheard ...
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back2grave

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #74 on: March 01, 2006, 06:56:08 PM »

Well, did GC get a warning from BCCI or that's being reserved only pro-SG ones ?
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Sahir

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #75 on: March 01, 2006, 06:58:40 PM »

flute202020, the point is not as much that simply coming to the DG makes someone pro-India.  Furthermore, I realize that there are people that get emotionally attached to a player, hoping that the team fails in that player's absence, or vice versa, hoping that player fails whenever he is present.  However, I do believe these emotions are based in the honest belief that the team is either better off with or without said player.  These may be labeled anti-India sentiments, but I think they are temporary, just like a political protest, but in the long-term, I think both sentiments are pro-India.
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senthilpeter

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #76 on: March 01, 2006, 08:43:54 PM »

flute202020, the point is not as much that simply coming to the DG makes someone pro-India.  Furthermore, I realize that there are people that get emotionally attached to a player, hoping that the team fails in that player's absence, or vice versa, hoping that player fails whenever he is present.  However, I do believe these emotions are based in the honest belief that the team is either better off with or without said player.  These may be labeled anti-India sentiments, but I think they are temporary, just like a political protest, but in the long-term, I think both sentiments are pro-India.

Sahir, is your belief player-independent?

I was thinking about what you've written for a good half hour. Mainly cos its probably the first instance i've come across on the DGs where a statement is made that you instinctively feel is not wholly true but you can't find holes in it. Its one of those things that isn't easily refutable. Really, on a thought-tweaking, mental-gymnastic, logical plane its a seemingly bullet-proof argument. Atleast to me. Kudos.
But after a whole lot of thought, my above question.
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Sahir

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #77 on: March 01, 2006, 09:08:59 PM »

flute202020, the point is not as much that simply coming to the DG makes someone pro-India.  Furthermore, I realize that there are people that get emotionally attached to a player, hoping that the team fails in that player's absence, or vice versa, hoping that player fails whenever he is present.  However, I do believe these emotions are based in the honest belief that the team is either better off with or without said player.  These may be labeled anti-India sentiments, but I think they are temporary, just like a political protest, but in the long-term, I think both sentiments are pro-India.

Sahir, is your belief player-independent?

I was thinking about what you've written for a good half hour. Mainly cos its probably the first instance i've come across on the DGs where a statement is made that you instinctively feel is not wholly true but you can't find holes in it. Its one of those things that isn't easily refutable. Really, on a thought-tweaking, mental-gymnastic, logical plane its a seemingly bullet-proof argument. Atleast to me. Kudos.
But after a whole lot of thought, my above question.

It is player-independent.  Of course, we all realize the current case involves Ganguly, but the statement, I feel applies just about any player people get emotionally attached to.
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Sahir

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #78 on: March 01, 2006, 09:14:25 PM »


I do not doubt that anyone on this DG is pro-India - but a needless amount of time and energy seem to be spent on arguing about 2 guys ...
That is where my comment came from - lets move on and look out for the team


Yes, I agree we do spend to much time discussing the SG-GC issue.  At some point, we need to learn to agree to disagree when all concerned realize you are not going to convince the other(s).  For example, Teddy and I have been in some heated debates over the effectiveness of certain players, but both of us have eventaully, after a lot of discussion, agreed to disagree with no hard feelings.  I don't really feel the need to rehash the same discussion with him-- we both are well aware of each other's opinions.
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vsiddharth

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Re: GC "bares" it all
« Reply #79 on: March 01, 2006, 09:19:06 PM »

Sahir,

Unfortunately, I can offer my former self as a counter-example. In my high school days, I used to be thoroughly besotted with azhar's languid elegance and so on. These were the days before any confirmed reports about match-fixing, but even in those days azhar was clearly far from the most dependable batsman in the team. He would stroll his way to a silky 10 or 15 and then find the softest ways to get out--much like laxman today, only worse. Of course, the fact that he played in the same team as tendulkar made his deficiencies that much more evident. Yet, I used to go around saying that I would rather watch azhar score 10 than watch anyone else score a century, and I meant it. This was a case of elevation of style over results rather than emotional investment per se, but I was clearly favouring an outcome that was not optimal for the team without being any less of a cricket fan (I would certainly have visited this dg if it had been around then).  

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