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dextrous

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DG Dying?
« on: June 03, 2007, 10:25:23 AM »

DG Dying?

I’m going to keep this short and sweet.  No matter how many rules are made, the bitterness can’t be stopped.  Sarcasm, backhanded compliments, irony, ‘funny’ parochial references, etc. have become ingrained with posting habits from all.  Clearly, after more than a year of togetherness, underneath the seemingly light-hearted comments are jabs of a far more serious nature.

All that is nothing new.  Every once in a while someone makes a post asking for calm (usually labeled with sarcasm and digs towards another party).  But unlike before, a lot of you have made it a habit to post only to complain about another’s post or complain about mod actions or simply habitually report each post that’s not aesthetically pleasing.  Most of the mods here, who’re also heavy posters, are more or less dealing with complains all the time leaving little time to post or discuss anything.

There’s no magic wand to somehow turn everyone into nice people but somewhere either it has to consciously stop or this DG is pretty much going to die.  This is primarily a cricket DG and if there’s nothing coming by way of cricket discussion, it isn’t going to be sustainable.  If every article is going to be followed with a post made in frustration and anger about what the “other side” said about the person a year ago…well then you get a DG like this one.

Bottomline is this is the DG, these are the moderators, these are the posters you’ll be with if you stay here. Like many of you, I too have been a part of many Cricket DGs and if indeed there are DGs out there where MODs spend more time assuaging fears, then please PM me the link and I’ll be glad to forward it to all members here.  Seeking constant improvement from everyone but ourselves seems to be theme in the DG these days.  Of course, if the only reason to come here is to keep ensuring the e-rivalries are going strong, then please stop reading.  Perhaps there can be a separate site “cricketvoiceatrocitiesdiscussion.com”

There have been some fun times here, it has been nice chatting with some of you, but if things aren’t going to change then indeed I should start referring to the fun times in the past tense.  Next time you start complaining about something, just think how many cricketing posts have you actually contributed yourself that haven’t been digs on some member.

Either you can post here and say how I've hurt someone's feeling (you feel belittled and then we can argue endlessly for next 3 days about that) and keep fighting some more till the DG is dead or decide what you want the DG to be. For my part, all I can give you is my own commitment to not greet anyone in my next post with something sarcastic, belittling, patronizing, etc.—more importantly I’m saying this with no IF or BUT clauses.  So over to you all.  Just cut each other some slack, hold the mean-spirited joke a while longer.
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caught and bowled

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2007, 10:43:42 AM »

Well said Dex. Perhaps its time to hold back that mean spirited joke, jab, jibe forever. We have seen that each one's interpretation of banter is different and it doesn't take very long for a simple discussion to degenerate into something nasty.

Let's just talk Cricket and accept that different people will have different views on the same issue. If we can be polite, civil, diplomatic etc. in our realy life, why should the garb of annonimity push us here in the wrong direction.

Maybe this sounds quite hollow or cliched but if we can't say something civil atleast lets be neutral and not say anything.

Lets move on, folks. All of us..
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Cover Point

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2007, 02:23:31 PM »

Well said Dex. Perhaps its time to hold back that mean spirited joke, jab, jibe forever. We have seen that each one's interpretation of banter is different and it doesn't take very long for a simple discussion to degenerate into something nasty.

Let's just talk Cricket and accept that different people will have different views on the same issue. If we can be polite, civil, diplomatic etc. in our realy life, why should the garb of annonimity push us here in the wrong direction.

Maybe this sounds quite hollow or cliched but if we can't say something civil atleast lets be neutral and not say anything.

Lets move on, folks. All of us..

I am assuming this would be one thread where an indirect reference to the mod team will be tolerated but does the "ALL OF US" include the mod team?

Getting beyond that, honestly I am getting really frustrated with this. Every other day Dex or Kban or someone else posts something insinuating that we want to get along and move on and all that BUT then when anything happens (and no matter what DG, what place with so many people some deviation from cricket or slight banter ..right or wrong .. will happen) then shots start firing and even the above said members (I am not referring to them as mods here) partake.

Yesterday there was a poll I started FOR MY INFORMATION. It wasnt complaining about any action etc etc but it became a slugfest between SGUSA and Kban. So you can blame SGUSA all and sundry, but without that one umbrage taken to a slight offhanded comment by LN on that thread it would not have become a 80 post monster.

So I would like to repeat what Dex has said above. Everyone wants a change from EVERYONE but themselves.

I think moving on is a very very very very good idea BUT this move has to happen for all! You can keep blaming Flute and CP and SGUSA and EVEN FP for all the fights and nastyness BUT a little introspection for ALL maybe in order. I was out yesterday when all hell broke lose on that thread but reading through that NOTHING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF KBAN did not take umbrage to that one innocuous comment from LN.

Overall I like the idea of everyone chilling a bit BUT that needs to go DOUBLE for the mod team (u guys have more power). Do that and we may have peace yet! 
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caught and bowled

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2007, 03:08:57 PM »

CP,

Dex says " For my part, all I can give you is my own commitment to not greet anyone in my next post with something sarcastic, belittling, patronizing, etc.—more importantly I’m saying this with no IF or BUT clauses. " Let's take that at it's face value and believe it. It sounds sincere to me. Just do your bit. Hopefully, others will follow.

Everyone needs to introspect and that  would include the Mod team as well. (I will take Dex's original post on this thread as the proof that they have  already started doing so). Remember the Spiderman saying: " With great power, comes great responsibility"!!

I have my own opinion on what went wrong yesterday on the thread of your Poll. Lets not discuss that openly here so that we can prevent this thread from becoming the usual finger pointing exercise.

Like when India and Pakistan sit down to talk, we need CBMs from all. (Confidence Building Measures) ;)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2007, 04:18:29 PM by caught and bowled »
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sudzz

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2007, 03:53:47 PM »

?
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sgusa

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2007, 04:30:37 PM »

c & b: Please PM me with your opinion on what went wrong in that thread. I would like to know since I had a big part to play there.

CP: Ah, so LN is to be blamed for all this, I suppose :) :D

LN: See prev line.

Dex: Ok, you know I have stood first in line anytime you posted asking for help to improve the DG - monetary/ideas/whatever. And you know that until very recently, I havent been involved in even a single issue. I suppose certain thing have got on my nerves and broken through my "I dont give a ##$^ these are just stupid IDs online" attitude. I will go back to thinking that. But seriously, it makes me mad when people post here like they own the DG - they forget that we are all equal partners in this.

Why cant we have Mods elected once every 2 years or so ? That way some will get rest, some will get to experiance the headaches.

We defn need a "Freedom to Information" Act on this DG too. There needs to be a sticky thread where Mods should post what they do everytime they do it ( if the mods can send 10 PMs and post 3-4 warnings on the thread, they can defn post a 4 line post on that thread explaining what they did, provide link to referenced posts etc). The mod actions, ( and "mods as normals poster" 's actions ) etc can be questioned. Every democracy gives the people the right to question its leader. Or are we a dictatorship ? Please do make that clear.
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dextrous

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2007, 05:12:03 PM »

Why cant we have Mods elected once every 2 years or so ? That way some will get rest, some will get to experiance the headaches.
As I mentioned in my post, please PM me the links to all sites where site admins/mods are selected by voting--I haven't ever seen such a thing in any site, leave alone a cricket site. Neither have I seen so many protests for every single decision--in most good cricket sites people are banned outright and that's that.

Quote
We defn need a "Freedom to Information" Act on this DG too. There needs to be a sticky thread where Mods should post what they do everytime they do it ( if the mods can send 10 PMs and post 3-4 warnings on the thread, they can defn post a 4 line post on that thread explaining what they did, provide link to referenced posts etc). The mod actions, ( and "mods as normals poster" 's actions ) etc can be questioned. Every democracy gives the people the right to question its leader. Or are we a dictatorship ? Please do make that clear.
This is not a country, this is an online forum--I'm not sure what this idea of "democracy" has to do with a cricket DG. For most part, a note is posted when something is moved, esp. of late.  Can I go on Microsoft forums and start demanding democracy? Can I go to XYZ forum and hope to work my way up to admin there? In fact, this line of rhetoric is confounding to me.

The question hardly should be about "mod action" at this point given that this is a cricket DG with hardly any cricket posts.
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sudzz

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2007, 05:22:41 PM »

Why cant we have Mods elected once every 2 years or so ? That way some will get rest, some will get to experiance the headaches.
As I mentioned in my post, please PM me the links to all sites where site admins/mods are selected by voting--I haven't ever seen such a thing in any site, leave alone a cricket site. Neither have I seen so many protests for every single decision--in most good cricket sites people are banned outright and that's that.

Quote
We defn need a "Freedom to Information" Act on this DG too. There needs to be a sticky thread where Mods should post what they do everytime they do it ( if the mods can send 10 PMs and post 3-4 warnings on the thread, they can defn post a 4 line post on that thread explaining what they did, provide link to referenced posts etc). The mod actions, ( and "mods as normals poster" 's actions ) etc can be questioned. Every democracy gives the people the right to question its leader. Or are we a dictatorship ? Please do make that clear.
This is not a country, this is an online forum--I'm not sure what this idea of "democracy" has to do with a cricket DG. For most part, a note is posted when something is moved, esp. of late.  Can I go on Microsoft forums and start demanding democracy? Can I go to XYZ forum and hope to work my way up to admin there? In fact, this line of rhetoric is confounding to me.

The question hardly should be about "mod action" at this point given that this is a cricket DG with hardly any cricket posts.

Dex this is where I disagree, democracy means uniformity of action, not moderators by rotation. There needs to be a standard policy and the implementation should be fair and equal against all members.

That there are DG members that feel otherwise points to one of two things

1. Either the policies are not adequately clear to all or
2. They are not being implemented in a manner which seems fair

Point # 2 is debatable because what seems to fair to me might not seem so to someone else but the onus to clarify in PM or publicly is with the moderators because an action without announcement does not solve the core problem it only takes care of that particular symptom.

But in sum and substance there is a lot of distrust and initially it was one group within the whole now it is more pervasive and there are others me inclued who feel that we need address the issue.
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dextrous

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2007, 05:29:22 PM »

So I would like to repeat what Dex has said above. Everyone wants a change from EVERYONE but themselves.
CP, yes, i did refer to all and sundry, inc. myself. Could my post be biased towards mods above? absolutely, im sure it is.

Quote
I think moving on is a very very very very good idea BUT this move has to happen for all! You can keep blaming Flute and CP and SGUSA and EVEN FP for all the fights and nastyness BUT a little introspection for ALL maybe in order. I was out yesterday when all hell broke lose on that thread but reading through that NOTHING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF KBAN did not take umbrage to that one innocuous comment from LN.

Overall I like the idea of everyone chilling a bit BUT that needs to go DOUBLE for the mod team (u guys have more power). Do that and we may have peace yet! 

First part--I agree with, about ALL.

Second part--given how much hours we're putting in lately (look at the time I posted the original post) I'm a bit inclined to say help from members is essential for any peace to be binding which won't just a be a result of rules and boundaries.
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Blwe_torch

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2007, 05:34:29 PM »

As the great Kerry Packer once famously asked Ian Chappel..."Do u think this is a freaking deemocricy"? ;D
Hmmm.......its a tough world! [god] :evil4:
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sgusa

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2007, 05:37:13 PM »

As the great Kerry Packer once famously asked Ian Chappel..."Do u think this is a freaking deemocricy"? ;D
Hmmm.......its a tough world! [god] :evil4:

didnt you get the memo that posting in humor to posts that are obviously in seriousness is not allowed anymore ? :D
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Blwe_torch

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2007, 05:38:32 PM »

As the great Kerry Packer once famously asked Ian Chappel..."Do u think this is a freaking deemocricy"? ;D
Hmmm.......its a tough world! [god] :evil4:

didnt you get the memo that posting in humor to posts that are obviously in seriousness is not allowed anymore ? :D
Yeah I did....but I saw to it that my post remains harmless! :D
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sgusa

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2007, 05:40:47 PM »

As the great Kerry Packer once famously asked Ian Chappel..."Do u think this is a freaking deemocricy"? ;D
Hmmm.......its a tough world! [god] :evil4:

didnt you get the memo that posting in humor to posts that are obviously in seriousness is not allowed anymore ? :D
Yeah I did....but I saw to it that my post remains harmless! :D

You have no idea how a POV can be looked at with squinty eyes until it looks harmful, do you? :)
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Blwe_torch

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2007, 05:52:05 PM »

As the great Kerry Packer once famously asked Ian Chappel..."Do u think this is a freaking deemocricy"? ;D
Hmmm.......its a tough world! [god] :evil4:

didnt you get the memo that posting in humor to posts that are obviously in seriousness is not allowed anymore ? :D
Yeah I did....but I saw to it that my post remains harmless! :D

You have no idea how a POV can be looked at with squinty eyes until it looks harmful, do you? :)


I do that in real life alright........part of my job. :D
btw...Long live the DG! :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
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kingcool1432

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2007, 07:32:43 PM »

Is it just me, or has this sudden spike in petty cat-fights coincided with the demise of the much maligned smite feature?  ::Whip::
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fineleg

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2007, 07:45:01 PM »

Dex,
A few points:
Note: Read this as a note from person XYZ - dont wear your "FL glasses" when you read this, Please.

1. I will take it that you will follow what you have said in earnest - namely,
"For my part, all I can give you is my own commitment to not greet anyone in my next post with something sarcastic, belittling, patronizing, etc.—more importantly I’m saying this with no IF or BUT clauses"

2. Whether you do the #1 - which may be harder to do - do the IGNORE. You see a thread about Bihar from flute. If you like participate, if you think its with "different intent", totally ignore it. One person's opinion on a state/cricketer/coach is not really going to affect anything. You can ignore it, and continue your life and posting on other threads peacefully.

Even Kban could not resist to "ignore" on LN's comment (Whether LN meant it as harmless or kban thought it was harmful is another matter). In real life, most of us will "IGNORE" and think something within our own mind, but will not express that directly to another person face-to-face. In DG we do that, and hence the resulting problem.

3. (related to #2) I've always stated - as long as personal abuses is not done, really IGNORE the comments on cricketers/coaches you(you as in everyone, not just dex) dont like. If someone feels SG or GC is the best or worst thing in the whole world, and SG/GC is a pussy, let them think that way.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2007, 07:46:37 PM by fineleg »
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fineleg

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2007, 07:51:23 PM »

and #4: I've been guilty of this, but I'll still say this also.
If person A wishes to taunt person B, then person A can succeed ONLY IFF person B is indeed pissed. If person B takes it cool and ignores person A, there is no way in the world, person A can succeed at the taunting.

In fact, it is utter failure for A (the taunter) if B does not respond or remains cool.

This is absolutely true in real life, and I'm sure in the DG. I do believe the DG will cool down over time and better period will return sooner than later.
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Cover Point

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2007, 03:34:12 AM »

Why cant we have Mods elected once every 2 years or so ? That way some will get rest, some will get to experiance the headaches.
As I mentioned in my post, please PM me the links to all sites where site admins/mods are selected by voting--I haven't ever seen such a thing in any site, leave alone a cricket site. Neither have I seen so many protests for every single decision--in most good cricket sites people are banned outright and that's that.

Quote
We defn need a "Freedom to Information" Act on this DG too. There needs to be a sticky thread where Mods should post what they do everytime they do it ( if the mods can send 10 PMs and post 3-4 warnings on the thread, they can defn post a 4 line post on that thread explaining what they did, provide link to referenced posts etc). The mod actions, ( and "mods as normals poster" 's actions ) etc can be questioned. Every democracy gives the people the right to question its leader. Or are we a dictatorship ? Please do make that clear.
This is not a country, this is an online forum--I'm not sure what this idea of "democracy" has to do with a cricket DG. For most part, a note is posted when something is moved, esp. of late.  Can I go on Microsoft forums and start demanding democracy? Can I go to XYZ forum and hope to work my way up to admin there? In fact, this line of rhetoric is confounding to me.

The question hardly should be about "mod action" at this point given that this is a cricket DG with hardly any cricket posts.

Dex this is where I disagree, democracy means uniformity of action, not moderators by rotation. There needs to be a standard policy and the implementation should be fair and equal against all members.

That there are DG members that feel otherwise points to one of two things

1. Either the policies are not adequately clear to all or
2. They are not being implemented in a manner which seems fair

Point # 2 is debatable because what seems to fair to me might not seem so to someone else but the onus to clarify in PM or publicly is with the moderators because an action without announcement does not solve the core problem it only takes care of that particular symptom.

But in sum and substance there is a lot of distrust and initially it was one group within the whole now it is more pervasive and there are others me inclued who feel that we need address the issue.

Suddz has made some very very pertinant points which seem to have been ignored. I think the problem is that recent events have caused the faith in the moderation to be very very low. Now you can say it is just the perception of a few .... but the few maybe atleast 20-30% Of the DG and thats not a small percentage.

Putting on our grown up hat, I can tell you my personal perception can be ignored. One person doesnt matter, but the perception of a third of the people on the DG is wrong? Is that going to be ignored?

I think you made a very sane post (#1) but a follow up has got to be a way to move forward. You cant keep saying trust the mod actions when thats where the trust is lacking. You cant keep asking for peace when actions keep getting taken (in PM's or otherwise) that remove whatever is left of that trust.

So this is what is happening

1) There already is lack of trust with the mod team
2) On top of that you threaten to ban anyone who discusses or questions anyone even in the most innocous way.

I think what SGUSA suggested about having a spot available (have it hidden in the feedback folder if u may) to discuss things is not a bad idea. Why not implement that?

I think having elected mods isnt a bad idea either? What are we afraid of? I mean u keep saying that doesnt happen in other places but so many other things happen else where too. Your example of MS forums is wrong since most mods in those forums dont partake in discussions. Dont have opinions of their own.

Dont take this as an affront but try to understand where others are coming from too.

Thanks
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doosra

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2007, 04:14:13 AM »

and #4: I've been guilty of this, but I'll still say this also.
If person A wishes to taunt person B, then person A can succeed ONLY IFF person B is indeed pissed. If person B takes it cool and ignores person A, there is no way in the world, person A can succeed at the taunting.

In fact, it is utter failure for A (the taunter) if B does not respond or remains cool.

This is absolutely true in real life, and I'm sure in the DG. I do believe the DG will cool down over time and better period will return sooner than later.

Hear! Hear!
 :sign10: :sign10: :sign10:
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achutank

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2007, 05:03:40 AM »

the mods are doing what they are supposed to do.

and they are doing that fairly and to the best of their ability.

let it be at that.

this is a site which works, let it be at that.   
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dextrous

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2007, 09:29:58 AM »

I'm still not getting this--since when are online website/forums run in the format being suggested here? These are not "elected" positions, neither is it based on popularity or politics. While the word "democracy" is a nice one to use, it simply doesn't apply to anything outside of elections. I mean, it is like saying "We want democracy" in the office--what does that mean? Or "We want democracy" in Cricket Academy. Even a site like wikipedia doesn't go around voting on who gets selected 'mod.'  Neither are these forums designed to conduct voting in any fair manner nor am I willing to expose the site to considerable security risks which giving someone mod power entails--as it opens up the entire database. Multiple ids, proxy servers, anonymous browsing are all easy ways to manipulate results which can mean anyone can win an 'election' with basic computer knowledge. People already try to create new IDs to vote in regular polls of no consequence.

And Cover Point, I distinctly remember you suggested two weeks ago you want enforcement and that there'll be no threads, etc. after banning and warnings. Same mods still. In that time span, you may have lost faith in them because you do not like their decisions but by visiting this site, you're in fact agreeing to the terms of posting here--there aren't any IFs and BUTs about that.  In fact, other than Dhruv (who replaced Sahir), all mods have been here since day 1. To quote kban, "This is not a democracy, it is a forum where we participate of our free will with the stipulation that participation entails abiding by the rules of the forum." I said it in my post above and I'll say it again, by browsing and posting in these forums, everyone is well aware of who the mods are and what the rules are.

But again, I say this in all sincerity and seriousness, I've been a part of almost every major cricket forum around and there isn't a single good one that spends so much time discussing mod actions, leave alone communicate with offenders for endless days--so take a look, browse some other forums.  If there are better models out there that should be emulated, do PM me.  If we actually did make some sort of an effort to discuss cricket around here, we may not need to be discussing each other and mod actions. But, of course, the whole problem arises from so few people actually having a genuine interest in discussing cricket here.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2007, 09:33:13 AM by dextrous »
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caught and bowled

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2007, 10:44:04 AM »

But, of course, the whole problem arises from so few people actually having a genuine interest in discussing cricket here.

Dex I can quite understand your frustrations but the above is not really true. I think most of us come here for Cricket. I surely do. I come here for Cricket related news and for exchanging views (not debates!!) with people who share my passion for cricket.
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achutank

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2007, 12:30:30 PM »

.

Dex I can quite understand your frustrations but the above is not really true. I think most of us come here for Cricket. I surely do. I come here for Cricket related news and for exchanging views (not debates!!) with people who share my passion for cricket.

Hanh baba tu shivaji  >:D
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pipsqueak

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2007, 02:45:43 PM »

Aesop's Fable

A Man and his son were once going with their Donkey to market. As they were walking along by its side a countryman passed them and said: "You fools, what is a Donkey for but to ride upon?"

So the Man put the Boy on the Donkey and they went on their way. But soon they passed a group of men, one of whom said: "See that lazy youngster, he lets his father walk while he rides."

So the Man ordered his Boy to get off, and got on himself. But they hadn't gone far when they passed two women, one of whom said to the other: "Shame on that lazy lout to let his poor little son trudge along."

Well, the Man didn't know what to do, but at last he took his Boy up before him on the Donkey. By this time they had come to the town, and the passers-by began to jeer and point at them. The Man stopped and asked what they were scoffing at. The men said: "Aren't you ashamed of yourself for overloading that poor donkey of yours and your hulking son?"

The Man and Boy got off and tried to think what to do. They thought and they thought, till at last they cut down a pole, tied the donkey's feet to it, and raised the pole and the donkey to their shoulders. They went along amid the laughter of all who met them till they came to Market Bridge, when the Donkey, getting one of his feet loose, kicked out and caused the Boy to drop his end of the pole. In the struggle the Donkey fell over the bridge, and his fore-feet being tied together he was drowned.

"That will teach you," said an old man who had followed them:

"If you try to please all, you will please none."

« Last Edit: June 04, 2007, 03:01:16 PM by pipsqueak »
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achutank

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2007, 02:54:26 PM »

Aesop's Fable

A Man and his son were once going with their Donkey to market. As they were walking along by its side a countryman passed them and said: "You fools, what is a Donkey for but to ride upon?"

So the Man put the Boy on the Donkey and they went on their way. But soon they passed a group of men, one of whom said: "See that lazy youngster, he lets his father walk while he rides."

So the Man ordered his Boy to get off, and got on himself. But they hadn't gone far when they passed two women, one of whom said to the other: "Shame on that lazy lout to let his poor little son trudge along."

Well, the Man didn't know what to do, but at last he took his Boy up before him on the Donkey. By this time they had come to the town, and the passers-by began to jeer and point at them. The Man stopped and asked what they were scoffing at. The men said: "Aren't you ashamed of yourself for overloading that poor donkey of yours and your hulking son?"

The Man and Boy got off and tried to think what to do. They thought and they thought, till at last they cut down a pole, tied the donkey's feet to it, and raised the pole and the donkey to their shoulders. They went along amid the laughter of all who met them till they came to Market Bridge, when the Donkey, getting one of his feet loose, kicked out and caused the Boy to drop his end of the pole. In the struggle the Donkey fell over the bridge, and his fore-feet being tied together he was drowned.

"That will teach you," said an old man who had followed them:

"Please all, and you will please none."



excellent point PS

this DG set out on a path when a few guys got together and decided todo something about a situation. most of the rest were twiddling their thumbs doing squat diddlido. and the rest of the rest were watching the most of the rest do squat diddlido.

these few guys , actually dex, kban, blwe (sahir and arjun were invited) made this DG so that all of the rest can continue voicing their loud opinions.

there was a choice - tombaan and teddy had one of their own, cricketfans or the others were fully operational. why come here in the first place then? especially when it was started by known SG fans?

or was it because this DG was far more free and far less controlled than a whole load of them cricket forums/sites out there

i think the mods should just continue doing what they are doing, the rest of the rest and the most of the rest and the new numbers to the rest , have a choice. as kersey said, either you or on the bus or off it.:)

i will give it a rest here.

trust the rest can also give it a rest.  :) (smiley added so standard 16mm gasket is not blown)
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flute202020

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2007, 03:01:34 PM »

Why cant we have Mods elected once every 2 years or so ? That way some will get rest, some will get to experiance the headaches.
As I mentioned in my post, please PM me the links to all sites where site admins/mods are selected by voting--I haven't ever seen such a thing in any site, leave alone a cricket site. Neither have I seen so many protests for every single decision--in most good cricket sites people are banned outright and that's that.

Quote
We defn need a "Freedom to Information" Act on this DG too. There needs to be a sticky thread where Mods should post what they do everytime they do it ( if the mods can send 10 PMs and post 3-4 warnings on the thread, they can defn post a 4 line post on that thread explaining what they did, provide link to referenced posts etc). The mod actions, ( and "mods as normals poster" 's actions ) etc can be questioned. Every democracy gives the people the right to question its leader. Or are we a dictatorship ? Please do make that clear.
This is not a country, this is an online forum--I'm not sure what this idea of "democracy" has to do with a cricket DG. For most part, a note is posted when something is moved, esp. of late.  Can I go on Microsoft forums and start demanding democracy? Can I go to XYZ forum and hope to work my way up to admin there? In fact, this line of rhetoric is confounding to me.

The question hardly should be about "mod action" at this point given that this is a cricket DG with hardly any cricket posts.

Dex this is where I disagree, democracy means uniformity of action, not moderators by rotation. There needs to be a standard policy and the implementation should be fair and equal against all members.

That there are DG members that feel otherwise points to one of two things

1. Either the policies are not adequately clear to all or
2. They are not being implemented in a manner which seems fair

Point # 2 is debatable because what seems to fair to me might not seem so to someone else but the onus to clarify in PM or publicly is with the moderators because an action without announcement does not solve the core problem it only takes care of that particular symptom.

But in sum and substance there is a lot of distrust and initially it was one group within the whole now it is more pervasive and there are others me inclued who feel that we need address the issue.

Suddz has made some very very pertinant points which seem to have been ignored. I think the problem is that recent events have caused the faith in the moderation to be very very low. Now you can say it is just the perception of a few .... but the few maybe atleast 20-30% Of the DG and thats not a small percentage.

Putting on our grown up hat, I can tell you my personal perception can be ignored. One person doesnt matter, but the perception of a third of the people on the DG is wrong? Is that going to be ignored?

I think you made a very sane post (#1) but a follow up has got to be a way to move forward. You cant keep saying trust the mod actions when thats where the trust is lacking. You cant keep asking for peace when actions keep getting taken (in PM's or otherwise) that remove whatever is left of that trust.

So this is what is happening

1) There already is lack of trust with the mod team
2) On top of that you threaten to ban anyone who discusses or questions anyone even in the most innocous way.

I think what SGUSA suggested about having a spot available (have it hidden in the feedback folder if u may) to discuss things is not a bad idea. Why not implement that?

I think having elected mods isnt a bad idea either? What are we afraid of? I mean u keep saying that doesnt happen in other places but so many other things happen else where too. Your example of MS forums is wrong since most mods in those forums dont partake in discussions. Dont have opinions of their own.

Dont take this as an affront but try to understand where others are coming from too.

Thanks
agree with CP. By my own experiences and by looking at some of the decisions , it is quite clear to me that there is definite bias. simply see the reactions on this thread and how come only one set of members are arguing about bias while the other set wax eloquent about "please all, please none" fables? to famously read between lines, does it mean, "please only us"?

again to quote my own experience, atleast recently, the problem seem to be bias and not personal attacks on me. personal attack, abuse etc. can very easily be handled if we ensure uniform application of rules and terms without regard to a member's opinions and mod power.
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m

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2007, 03:05:15 PM »

As for me, I'll keep on posting...trying to resuscitate a dying DG.... by stirring hornet's nest ..now and then :)
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achutank

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2007, 03:13:06 PM »

As for me, I'll keep on posting...trying to resuscitate a dying DG.... by stirring hornet's nest ..now and then :)

now i am wondering m how stirring a hornet's nest resuscitates a dying DG unless you use the Slap Technique as made famous by all Bollywood drowing scenes since the censors do not allow kissing mostly especially on wet women :)

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pipsqueak

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2007, 03:15:21 PM »

agree with CP. By my own experiences and by looking at some of the decisions , it is quite clear to me that there is definite bias. simply see the reactions on this thread and how come only one set of members are arguing about bias while the other set wax eloquent about "please all, please none" fables? to famously read between lines, does it mean, "please only us"?

again to quote my own experience, atleast recently, the problem seem to be bias and not personal attacks on me. personal attack, abuse etc. can very easily be handled if we ensure uniform application of rules and terms without regard to a member's opinions and mod power.


who is "us"?  if you see "sides", can't help much. i haven't waged any battle through the mods to be "pleased" by them. i am curious about your signature though. imho, if you were interested in peace and harmony, you would take that off.

my point is that in a group with a variety of people, each with different demands(some like banter, some don't like banter, some want only cricket, some want more than cricket etc.), it is not easy to satisfy everyone. it seems like someone or the other is always complaining about something and it is hard on the moderators.

this DG used to be a fun place but has ceased to be. it isn't just for cricket that i visit this place - also for the people and the interaction/banter as well. hope it goes back to its old mode.
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Cover Point

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2007, 03:28:33 PM »

agree with CP. By my own experiences and by looking at some of the decisions , it is quite clear to me that there is definite bias. simply see the reactions on this thread and how come only one set of members are arguing about bias while the other set wax eloquent about "please all, please none" fables? to famously read between lines, does it mean, "please only us"?

again to quote my own experience, atleast recently, the problem seem to be bias and not personal attacks on me. personal attack, abuse etc. can very easily be handled if we ensure uniform application of rules and terms without regard to a member's opinions and mod power.


who is "us"?  if you see "sides", can't help much. i haven't waged any battle through the mods to be "pleased" by them. i am curious about your signature though. imho, if you were interested in peace and harmony, you would take that off.

my point is that in a group with a variety of people, each with different demands(some like banter, some don't like banter, some want only cricket, some want more than cricket etc.), it is not easy to satisfy everyone. it seems like someone or the other is always complaining about something and it is hard on the moderators.

this DG used to be a fun place but has ceased to be. it isn't just for cricket that i visit this place - also for the people and the interaction/banter as well. hope it goes back to its old mode.


I hope that it goes back to the old mode too.

I understand things are hard for the mods and its fair to give them some slack. Until recently out of all of them I had always given Kban a lot of ...whats the word ... deference maybe? Anytime there was a flareup (my doing or others) I would always take his word ... with Benefit of the doubt etc etc.

What is bad now is that there is a new policy of zero tolerance. Good thats what we should have. BUT  then there is a rule about absolutely NO questioning or insinuating anything about mods. That is what is unfair.

Mods (and it could be a perception) have been less than fair in recent times. They have been overly aggressive against a few. Have been talking down a few with take it or leave kinds of phrases. BUT there is no questioning allowed.

I suggested open a thread that the mods respond in the feedback folder BUT even that is not acceptable.

Thats what I have a problem with. If you dont want to have discussion on the main board lets move it to the side boards BUT allow an open debate. Mod actions are not transparent (no one knows who got banned for how long and for what).

Keep everything transparent for all to see. Allow some discussion and then we dont need no freaking elections.

Tranparancy and dialog are a must. This whole operating behind the scenes thing is what is hurting. And yes the reason is lack of trust. Lets build some trust. Show some CBM's :)
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flute202020

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2007, 03:35:58 PM »

agree with CP. By my own experiences and by looking at some of the decisions , it is quite clear to me that there is definite bias. simply see the reactions on this thread and how come only one set of members are arguing about bias while the other set wax eloquent about "please all, please none" fables? to famously read between lines, does it mean, "please only us"?

again to quote my own experience, atleast recently, the problem seem to be bias and not personal attacks on me. personal attack, abuse etc. can very easily be handled if we ensure uniform application of rules and terms without regard to a member's opinions and mod power.


who is "us"?  if you see "sides", can't help much. i haven't waged any battle through the mods to be "pleased" by them. i am curious about your signature though. imho, if you were interested in peace and harmony, you would take that off.

my point is that in a group with a variety of people, each with different demands(some like banter, some don't like banter, some want only cricket, some want more than cricket etc.), it is not easy to satisfy everyone. it seems like someone or the other is always complaining about something and it is hard on the moderators.

this DG used to be a fun place but has ceased to be. it isn't just for cricket that i visit this place - also for the people and the interaction/banter as well. hope it goes back to its old mode.

well. if you are not aware of the sides, then either your naive or you are feigning ignorance. divide is the main reason for this thread to begin with. why shadow box? this thread can be used to sort out things instead of trying to behaveas if there is no acrimony or divide.

what exactly in my signature is detrimental to harmony? is it making fun of anyone? is it making fun of you or dex? IMO, the basic problem on this DG seem to be if you do something which I don't like, I will disturb harmony on the DG. if you criticize SG, I will personally attack you, if you say anything negative about any place in India, I will personally abuse you. until this attitude prevails, harmony will be disturbed, my signature will do zilch in disturbing any harmony. for God's sake, this is a online forum.
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pipsqueak

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2007, 03:48:41 PM »

agree with CP. By my own experiences and by looking at some of the decisions , it is quite clear to me that there is definite bias. simply see the reactions on this thread and how come only one set of members are arguing about bias while the other set wax eloquent about "please all, please none" fables? to famously read between lines, does it mean, "please only us"?

again to quote my own experience, atleast recently, the problem seem to be bias and not personal attacks on me. personal attack, abuse etc. can very easily be handled if we ensure uniform application of rules and terms without regard to a member's opinions and mod power.


who is "us"?  if you see "sides", can't help much. i haven't waged any battle through the mods to be "pleased" by them. i am curious about your signature though. imho, if you were interested in peace and harmony, you would take that off.

my point is that in a group with a variety of people, each with different demands(some like banter, some don't like banter, some want only cricket, some want more than cricket etc.), it is not easy to satisfy everyone. it seems like someone or the other is always complaining about something and it is hard on the moderators.

this DG used to be a fun place but has ceased to be. it isn't just for cricket that i visit this place - also for the people and the interaction/banter as well. hope it goes back to its old mode.

well. if you are not aware of the sides, then either your naive or you are feigning ignorance. divide is the main reason for this thread to begin with. why shadow box? this thread can be used to sort out things instead of trying to behaveas if there is no acrimony or divide.

what exactly in my signature is detrimental to harmony? is it making fun of anyone? is it making fun of you or dex? IMO, the basic problem on this DG seem to be if you do something which I don't like, I will disturb harmony on the DG. if you criticize SG, I will personally attack you, if you say anything negative about any place in India, I will personally abuse you. until this attitude prevails, harmony will be disturbed, my signature will do zilch in disturbing any harmony. for God's sake, this is a online forum.


i agree that there is a SG-GC divide but that is irrelevant to me when it comes to disagreeing on OTHER matters. i have questioned the mods many a time despite being on the same "side" and have also alienated quite a few of the SG-sympathizers, over other issues.

anyway, i do not wish to change your view and i hope your grievances are sorted out. as for your signature, it was just my humble opinion, based on the exchanges i have seen between you and dex. ultimately, it is your decision, of course.

regards, pip
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flute202020

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2007, 04:08:53 PM »

agree with CP. By my own experiences and by looking at some of the decisions , it is quite clear to me that there is definite bias. simply see the reactions on this thread and how come only one set of members are arguing about bias while the other set wax eloquent about "please all, please none" fables? to famously read between lines, does it mean, "please only us"?

again to quote my own experience, atleast recently, the problem seem to be bias and not personal attacks on me. personal attack, abuse etc. can very easily be handled if we ensure uniform application of rules and terms without regard to a member's opinions and mod power.


who is "us"?  if you see "sides", can't help much. i haven't waged any battle through the mods to be "pleased" by them. i am curious about your signature though. imho, if you were interested in peace and harmony, you would take that off.

my point is that in a group with a variety of people, each with different demands(some like banter, some don't like banter, some want only cricket, some want more than cricket etc.), it is not easy to satisfy everyone. it seems like someone or the other is always complaining about something and it is hard on the moderators.

this DG used to be a fun place but has ceased to be. it isn't just for cricket that i visit this place - also for the people and the interaction/banter as well. hope it goes back to its old mode.

well. if you are not aware of the sides, then either your naive or you are feigning ignorance. divide is the main reason for this thread to begin with. why shadow box? this thread can be used to sort out things instead of trying to behaveas if there is no acrimony or divide.

what exactly in my signature is detrimental to harmony? is it making fun of anyone? is it making fun of you or dex? IMO, the basic problem on this DG seem to be if you do something which I don't like, I will disturb harmony on the DG. if you criticize SG, I will personally attack you, if you say anything negative about any place in India, I will personally abuse you. until this attitude prevails, harmony will be disturbed, my signature will do zilch in disturbing any harmony. for God's sake, this is a online forum.


i agree that there is a SG-GC divide but that is irrelevant to me when it comes to disagreeing on OTHER matters. i have questioned the mods many a time despite being on the same "side" and have also alienated quite a few of the SG-sympathizers, over other issues.

anyway, i do not wish to change your view and i hope your grievances are sorted out. as for your signature, it was just my humble opinion, based on the exchanges i have seen between you and dex. ultimately, it is your decision, of course.

regards, pip

pip, ok, as a humble member of this DG and I too want to make sure none of my actions or signatures disturb harmony. As a long time member, I respect you and sincerely & greatly appreciate your "do not get offended" online nature and would like to understand your POV before I change my signature as you suggested.

can you please let me know the following

1. do you know what my signature means? if no, how did you reach the conclusion that it disturbs harmony? if yes, how did you decipher it? did someone PM you the meaning or did you ask someone on the DG?
2. exactly what exchanges between Dex and myself drove you to believe that the signature is the "source" of disharmony?
3. do you really think if I take a post of yours without modification and make it my signature , it will disturb harmony? can you please explain your POV clearly before I go ahead and remove the said source of disharmony? I am sure you do not want me to remove it without appreciating the reasons for removing it, do you?


regards
Flute
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ruchir

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2007, 04:24:03 PM »

As for me, I'll keep on posting...trying to resuscitate a dying DG.... by stirring hornet's nest ..now and then :)

Hhmmm...

I can visualize you giving mouth-to-mouth to CP, FLUTE, LN, SGUSA, Pitamah, DEX, even FP. Wow... those will be the Kodak moments, as they say in Mastercard Ad -- Priceless. I'll make sure I am not in the line. I'll be with you, with the defibrillator. Giving them electric shocks, to wake them up and let them enjoy the CPR...
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pipsqueak

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2007, 04:29:19 PM »

agree with CP. By my own experiences and by looking at some of the decisions , it is quite clear to me that there is definite bias. simply see the reactions on this thread and how come only one set of members are arguing about bias while the other set wax eloquent about "please all, please none" fables? to famously read between lines, does it mean, "please only us"?

again to quote my own experience, atleast recently, the problem seem to be bias and not personal attacks on me. personal attack, abuse etc. can very easily be handled if we ensure uniform application of rules and terms without regard to a member's opinions and mod power.


who is "us"?  if you see "sides", can't help much. i haven't waged any battle through the mods to be "pleased" by them. i am curious about your signature though. imho, if you were interested in peace and harmony, you would take that off.

my point is that in a group with a variety of people, each with different demands(some like banter, some don't like banter, some want only cricket, some want more than cricket etc.), it is not easy to satisfy everyone. it seems like someone or the other is always complaining about something and it is hard on the moderators.

this DG used to be a fun place but has ceased to be. it isn't just for cricket that i visit this place - also for the people and the interaction/banter as well. hope it goes back to its old mode.

well. if you are not aware of the sides, then either your naive or you are feigning ignorance. divide is the main reason for this thread to begin with. why shadow box? this thread can be used to sort out things instead of trying to behaveas if there is no acrimony or divide.

what exactly in my signature is detrimental to harmony? is it making fun of anyone? is it making fun of you or dex? IMO, the basic problem on this DG seem to be if you do something which I don't like, I will disturb harmony on the DG. if you criticize SG, I will personally attack you, if you say anything negative about any place in India, I will personally abuse you. until this attitude prevails, harmony will be disturbed, my signature will do zilch in disturbing any harmony. for God's sake, this is a online forum.


i agree that there is a SG-GC divide but that is irrelevant to me when it comes to disagreeing on OTHER matters. i have questioned the mods many a time despite being on the same "side" and have also alienated quite a few of the SG-sympathizers, over other issues.

anyway, i do not wish to change your view and i hope your grievances are sorted out. as for your signature, it was just my humble opinion, based on the exchanges i have seen between you and dex. ultimately, it is your decision, of course.

regards, pip

pip, ok, as a humble member of this DG and I too want to make sure none of my actions or signatures disturb harmony. As a long time member, I respect you and sincerely & greatly appreciate your "do not get offended" online nature and would like to understand your POV before I change my signature as you suggested.

can you please let me know the following

1. do you know what my signature means? if no, how did you reach the conclusion that it disturbs harmony? if yes, how did you decipher it? did someone PM you the meaning or did you ask someone on the DG?
2. exactly what exchanges between Dex and myself drove you to believe that the signature is the "source" of disharmony?
3. do you really think if I take a post of yours without modification and make it my signature , it will disturb harmony? can you please explain your POV clearly before I go ahead and remove the said source of disharmony? I am sure you do not want me to remove it without appreciating the reasons for removing it, do you?


regards
Flute

1. my hindi isn't THAT bad plus i have my 30-word vocabulary to fall back upon. so i figured that out with some help from some one(i do know ppl outside of this DG who can speak hindi).

2. i think i saw a few exchanges that weren't exactly "banter", let me say, between the two of you. of course, i could be wrong. in that case, i apologize and take my nose out of this whole business.

3. to me, the signature comes across as having some fun at the expense of dex (i recall seeing earlier something else about sun, moon, star etc.). If everything is fine and dandy between u and dex, it is all in good humour and again, i back off. on the other hand, if you and dex do not share a cordial relationship(taking into account, the perception from either side), it doesn't seem to be the best of ideas to quote him.

again, you be the judge.

my last post on this topic coz i think i have said more than enough on this topic and i need my nose back. plus i am no saint to preach and i have done my share of taunting over time. i guess i am going through a "mellow down" phase.
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caught and bowled

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2007, 04:30:20 PM »

Aesop's Fable

A Man and his son were once going with their Donkey to market. As they were walking along by its side a countryman passed them and said: "You fools, what is a Donkey for but to ride upon?"

So the Man put the Boy on the Donkey and they went on their way. But soon they passed a group of men, one of whom said: "See that lazy youngster, he lets his father walk while he rides."

So the Man ordered his Boy to get off, and got on himself. But they hadn't gone far when they passed two women, one of whom said to the other: "Shame on that lazy lout to let his poor little son trudge along."

Well, the Man didn't know what to do, but at last he took his Boy up before him on the Donkey. By this time they had come to the town, and the passers-by began to jeer and point at them. The Man stopped and asked what they were scoffing at. The men said: "Aren't you ashamed of yourself for overloading that poor donkey of yours and your hulking son?"

The Man and Boy got off and tried to think what to do. They thought and they thought, till at last they cut down a pole, tied the donkey's feet to it, and raised the pole and the donkey to their shoulders. They went along amid the laughter of all who met them till they came to Market Bridge, when the Donkey, getting one of his feet loose, kicked out and caused the Boy to drop his end of the pole. In the struggle the Donkey fell over the bridge, and his fore-feet being tied together he was drowned.

"That will teach you," said an old man who had followed them:

"Please all, and you will please none."



excellent point PS

this DG set out on a path when a few guys got together and decided todo something about a situation. most of the rest were twiddling their thumbs doing squat diddlido. and the rest of the rest were watching the most of the rest do squat diddlido.

these few guys , actually dex, kban, blwe (sahir and arjun were invited) made this DG so that all of the rest can continue voicing their loud opinions.

there was a choice - tombaan and teddy had one of their own, cricketfans or the others were fully operational. why come here in the first place then? especially when it was started by known SG fans?

or was it because this DG was far more free and far less controlled than a whole load of them cricket forums/sites out there

i think the mods should just continue doing what they are doing, the rest of the rest and the most of the rest and the new numbers to the rest , have a choice. as kersey said, either you or on the bus or off it.:)

i will give it a rest here.

trust the rest can also give it a rest.  :) (smiley added so standard 16mm gasket is not blown)
Aur haan baba, tu hi shaana.... >:D
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achutank

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2007, 04:59:27 PM »

Aesop's Fable

A Man and his son were once going with their Donkey to market. As they were walking along by its side a countryman passed them and said: "You fools, what is a Donkey for but to ride upon?"

So the Man put the Boy on the Donkey and they went on their way. But soon they passed a group of men, one of whom said: "See that lazy youngster, he lets his father walk while he rides."

So the Man ordered his Boy to get off, and got on himself. But they hadn't gone far when they passed two women, one of whom said to the other: "Shame on that lazy lout to let his poor little son trudge along."

Well, the Man didn't know what to do, but at last he took his Boy up before him on the Donkey. By this time they had come to the town, and the passers-by began to jeer and point at them. The Man stopped and asked what they were scoffing at. The men said: "Aren't you ashamed of yourself for overloading that poor donkey of yours and your hulking son?"

The Man and Boy got off and tried to think what to do. They thought and they thought, till at last they cut down a pole, tied the donkey's feet to it, and raised the pole and the donkey to their shoulders. They went along amid the laughter of all who met them till they came to Market Bridge, when the Donkey, getting one of his feet loose, kicked out and caused the Boy to drop his end of the pole. In the struggle the Donkey fell over the bridge, and his fore-feet being tied together he was drowned.

"That will teach you," said an old man who had followed them:

"Please all, and you will please none."



excellent point PS

this DG set out on a path when a few guys got together and decided todo something about a situation. most of the rest were twiddling their thumbs doing squat diddlido. and the rest of the rest were watching the most of the rest do squat diddlido.

these few guys , actually dex, kban, blwe (sahir and arjun were invited) made this DG so that all of the rest can continue voicing their loud opinions.

there was a choice - tombaan and teddy had one of their own, cricketfans or the others were fully operational. why come here in the first place then? especially when it was started by known SG fans?

or was it because this DG was far more free and far less controlled than a whole load of them cricket forums/sites out there

i think the mods should just continue doing what they are doing, the rest of the rest and the most of the rest and the new numbers to the rest , have a choice. as kersey said, either you or on the bus or off it.:)

i will give it a rest here.

trust the rest can also give it a rest.  :) (smiley added so standard 16mm gasket is not blown)
Aur haan baba, tu hi shaana.... >:D

aah touche :icon_smile:

long time no paring

you pick your talwar
and i bring my rampuri

 ;D

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there is more than meets the i

flute202020

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2007, 05:05:23 PM »

agree with CP. By my own experiences and by looking at some of the decisions , it is quite clear to me that there is definite bias. simply see the reactions on this thread and how come only one set of members are arguing about bias while the other set wax eloquent about "please all, please none" fables? to famously read between lines, does it mean, "please only us"?

again to quote my own experience, atleast recently, the problem seem to be bias and not personal attacks on me. personal attack, abuse etc. can very easily be handled if we ensure uniform application of rules and terms without regard to a member's opinions and mod power.


who is "us"?  if you see "sides", can't help much. i haven't waged any battle through the mods to be "pleased" by them. i am curious about your signature though. imho, if you were interested in peace and harmony, you would take that off.

my point is that in a group with a variety of people, each with different demands(some like banter, some don't like banter, some want only cricket, some want more than cricket etc.), it is not easy to satisfy everyone. it seems like someone or the other is always complaining about something and it is hard on the moderators.

this DG used to be a fun place but has ceased to be. it isn't just for cricket that i visit this place - also for the people and the interaction/banter as well. hope it goes back to its old mode.

well. if you are not aware of the sides, then either your naive or you are feigning ignorance. divide is the main reason for this thread to begin with. why shadow box? this thread can be used to sort out things instead of trying to behaveas if there is no acrimony or divide.

what exactly in my signature is detrimental to harmony? is it making fun of anyone? is it making fun of you or dex? IMO, the basic problem on this DG seem to be if you do something which I don't like, I will disturb harmony on the DG. if you criticize SG, I will personally attack you, if you say anything negative about any place in India, I will personally abuse you. until this attitude prevails, harmony will be disturbed, my signature will do zilch in disturbing any harmony. for God's sake, this is a online forum.


i agree that there is a SG-GC divide but that is irrelevant to me when it comes to disagreeing on OTHER matters. i have questioned the mods many a time despite being on the same "side" and have also alienated quite a few of the SG-sympathizers, over other issues.

anyway, i do not wish to change your view and i hope your grievances are sorted out. as for your signature, it was just my humble opinion, based on the exchanges i have seen between you and dex. ultimately, it is your decision, of course.

regards, pip

pip, ok, as a humble member of this DG and I too want to make sure none of my actions or signatures disturb harmony. As a long time member, I respect you and sincerely & greatly appreciate your "do not get offended" online nature and would like to understand your POV before I change my signature as you suggested.

can you please let me know the following

1. do you know what my signature means? if no, how did you reach the conclusion that it disturbs harmony? if yes, how did you decipher it? did someone PM you the meaning or did you ask someone on the DG?
2. exactly what exchanges between Dex and myself drove you to believe that the signature is the "source" of disharmony?
3. do you really think if I take a post of yours without modification and make it my signature , it will disturb harmony? can you please explain your POV clearly before I go ahead and remove the said source of disharmony? I am sure you do not want me to remove it without appreciating the reasons for removing it, do you?


regards
Flute

1. my hindi isn't THAT bad plus i have my 30-word vocabulary to fall back upon. so i figured that out with some help from some one(i do know ppl outside of this DG who can speak hindi).

2. i think i saw a few exchanges that weren't exactly "banter", let me say, between the two of you. of course, i could be wrong. in that case, i apologize and take my nose out of this whole business.

3. to me, the signature comes across as having some fun at the expense of dex (i recall seeing earlier something else about sun, moon, star etc.). If everything is fine and dandy between u and dex, it is all in good humour and again, i back off. on the other hand, if you and dex do not share a cordial relationship(taking into account, the perception from either side), it doesn't seem to be the best of ideas to quote him.

again, you be the judge.

my last post on this topic coz i think i have said more than enough on this topic and i need my nose back. plus i am no saint to preach and i have done my share of taunting over time. i guess i am going through a "mellow down" phase.

pip, thanks for your response, since you promised to not respond on this topic, I shall stop, but before you stop can you please indulge me just one time.

I am just curious, can you please tell me exactly what you understood word for word from my signature. since you are new to hindi, I want to make sure you understood it right, because I am lil surprised that your "disharmony" comment is so different from your usual "take no offense" attitude on this DG.  BTW, I am glad your 30 hindi words are really helping out. I appreciate your keeping your promise in learning the 30 words.
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Cover Point

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2007, 05:24:00 PM »

Aesop's Fable

A Man and his son were once going with their Donkey to market. As they were walking along by its side a countryman passed them and said: "You fools, what is a Donkey for but to ride upon?"

So the Man put the Boy on the Donkey and they went on their way. But soon they passed a group of men, one of whom said: "See that lazy youngster, he lets his father walk while he rides."

So the Man ordered his Boy to get off, and got on himself. But they hadn't gone far when they passed two women, one of whom said to the other: "Shame on that lazy lout to let his poor little son trudge along."

Well, the Man didn't know what to do, but at last he took his Boy up before him on the Donkey. By this time they had come to the town, and the passers-by began to jeer and point at them. The Man stopped and asked what they were scoffing at. The men said: "Aren't you ashamed of yourself for overloading that poor donkey of yours and your hulking son?"

The Man and Boy got off and tried to think what to do. They thought and they thought, till at last they cut down a pole, tied the donkey's feet to it, and raised the pole and the donkey to their shoulders. They went along amid the laughter of all who met them till they came to Market Bridge, when the Donkey, getting one of his feet loose, kicked out and caused the Boy to drop his end of the pole. In the struggle the Donkey fell over the bridge, and his fore-feet being tied together he was drowned.

"That will teach you," said an old man who had followed them:

"Please all, and you will please none."



excellent point PS

this DG set out on a path when a few guys got together and decided todo something about a situation. most of the rest were twiddling their thumbs doing squat diddlido. and the rest of the rest were watching the most of the rest do squat diddlido.

these few guys , actually dex, kban, blwe (sahir and arjun were invited) made this DG so that all of the rest can continue voicing their loud opinions.

there was a choice - tombaan and teddy had one of their own, cricketfans or the others were fully operational. why come here in the first place then? especially when it was started by known SG fans?

or was it because this DG was far more free and far less controlled than a whole load of them cricket forums/sites out there

i think the mods should just continue doing what they are doing, the rest of the rest and the most of the rest and the new numbers to the rest , have a choice. as kersey said, either you or on the bus or off it.:)

i will give it a rest here.

trust the rest can also give it a rest.  :) (smiley added so standard 16mm gasket is not blown)
Aur haan baba, tu hi shaana.... >:D

aah touche :icon_smile:

long time no paring

you pick your talwar
and i bring my rampuri

 ;D



Completely unrelated.

But dil ko choo gayi aapki baat.

Ek purani dard bhari daastaan fir yaad gayi. Mere dil ke taar ko fir dukha gayi.
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pipsqueak

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Re: DG Dying?
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2007, 05:29:06 PM »


pip, thanks for your response, since you promised to not respond on this topic, I shall stop, but before you stop can you please indulge me just one time.

I am just curious, can you please tell me exactly what you understood word for word from my signature. since you are new to hindi, I want to make sure you understood it right, because I am lil surprised that your "disharmony" comment is so different from your usual "take no offense" attitude on this DG.  BTW, I am glad your 30 hindi words are really helping out. I appreciate your keeping your promise in learning the 30 words.

1. it is simple to cut&paste a line to someone on YM and get it translated. it means, "an enemy is better than a friend like you", right? as i said, i am not completely hindi illiterate but do not understand every single word used.

2. well, i still think that not taking offense is the simplest approach in life - saves heartburns and more importantly, renders the other side ineffective. after-all, people taunt/abuse with an intent to irk the other party - why satisfy them? also, why should what a random person thinks of you have any bearing! that said, i also realize that this approach isn't practical for everyone all the time. i can control only myself. since this thread was about peace and harmony, i hazarded that suggestion. on another day, at another time, i may not have bothered. it is late, i am sleepy but have to stay up to finish some work, so am blabbering more than usual.

3. i am happy to learn hindi and am sure i know more than 30 words. i did have hindi for a year during my school days and sadly, have only horror memories. since i like to win all the prizes, i decided that i will participate in the hindi poetry recitation competition as well. a couple of my friends in the neighbourhood coached me and i learnt by rote, a hindi poem (wish i cd recall it now), along with some dramatic gestures, tone changes and pauses to accompany my recitation. sadly, on the big day, i got stuck after line three and exited the stage, red in embarrassment.

hope i have answered your queries.
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