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Author Topic: Father faces the Devil's Alternative as BCCI politics rules the roost  (Read 8471 times)

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dextrous

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Re: Father faces the Devil's Alternative as BCCI politics rules the roost
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2006, 04:13:18 AM »

VVS and SG have a gap of what 3. something? MUCH BETTER? By what logic?

Anyway--SG was a member until 2nd Test against Sri Lanka. Wasn't dropped.

He had a "comeback" for 1st test -- didn't bat. Dropped 2nd test. "Comeback" 3rd test -- 2nd best batsman on display, BY FAR.

So, should he not get more than one test in his "COMEBACK" to prove himself? Surely, for all your hatred, this is a logical thing to give ANY player -- MORE THAN ONE GAME!
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gouravk

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Re: Father faces the Devil's Alternative as BCCI politics rules the roost
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2006, 04:23:24 AM »

Will we stop bringing VVS into the discussion ? He had an average series in Pak 04, poor series at home v Aus and SA. Thats it. Other than that he has always been good. That is basically about 6 months of poor form, not 2 years like ganguly.
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Cover Point

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Re: Father faces the Devil's Alternative as BCCI politics rules the roost
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2006, 04:31:11 AM »

VVS and SG have a gap of what 3. something? MUCH BETTER? By what logic?


Math lesson 31.68 - 27.25 = something much greater than 3 (exactly 4.43)

in terms of average ... that can make a big difference. Like the difference between getting dropped and being on notice.
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dextrous

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Re: Father faces the Devil's Alternative as BCCI politics rules the roost
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2006, 04:47:41 AM »

VVS and SG have a gap of what 3. something? MUCH BETTER? By what logic?


Math lesson 31.68 - 27.25 = something much greater than 3 (exactly 4.43)

in terms of average ... that can make a big difference. Like the difference between getting dropped and being on notice.

Right, and 31 and 38 -- 7 points (or if you're using your texas instrument calculator, 6 perhaps?)...bigger difference. So do we have a cut-off mark established for team now, set by you?!

And look at the 2nd part of my post
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Cover Point

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Re: Father faces the Devil's Alternative as BCCI politics rules the roost
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2006, 05:15:30 AM »

Right, and 31 and 38 -- 7 points (or if you're using your texas instrument calculator, 6 perhaps?)...bigger difference. So do we have a cut-off mark established for team now, set by you?!

Ok not sure what the argument is. You said the difference was just 3 .. I mentioned it was more (closer to 5). Sachin averages 38 ... which is much better than Lakhan.

I am not setting a cutoff ... am just showing stats that SG was indeed the worse indian mo bat in this time. Worse than VVS ... worse than Tendulkar, Worse than Dravid etc etc .

You (Ganguly supporters.. fans )  keep bringing up other people's performance to justify SG's existance in the team and I was just showing that SG was worse even by those standards. i dont have to set a limit or cutoff. An average below 30 for a long period is usually considered unacceptable. Even VVS should be on notice as 32 isnt much better and thats what is happening.
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justforkix

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Re: Father faces the Devil's Alternative as BCCI politics rules the roost
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2006, 05:18:28 AM »

Will we stop bringing VVS into the discussion ? He had an average series in Pak 04, poor series at home v Aus and SA. Thats it. Other than that he has always been good. That is basically about 6 months of poor form, not 2 years like ganguly.

Other than that, VVS has played 3 series (2 vs Pak, 1 vs SL) - averaged in the 40s, neither good, neither bad, basically his career average. Analogously, for SG, you can say that, SG had a poor series against Aus in 04, Pak in 05. average series vs SL in 05 and Pak in 06, good series vs. SA in 04. So, why this difference of line for VVS and SG. Basically both have had an average 2 years. This seems to just show your liking for VVS over SG. Nothing wrong with that. But if you say SG has been poor for 2 years and his average is 27, then another batsman who averages 32 is also poor, albeit slightly better even if that happens to be the player you like.

In this famous 2 year period (rounding off to nearest whole no. >=0.5 = 1)

            VVS       SG
Pak 04    31        77       (Need to be taken into account for discussion because SG played only 1 innings vs. VVS 4)
Aus 04    18        20   
SA 04     24        49
Pak 05    42          9
SL  05     39        28
Pak 06    46        36
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dextrous

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Re: Father faces the Devil's Alternative as BCCI politics rules the roost
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2006, 05:33:41 AM »

Right, and 31 and 38 -- 7 points (or if you're using your texas instrument calculator, 6 perhaps?)...bigger difference. So do we have a cut-off mark established for team now, set by you?!

Ok not sure what the argument is. You said the difference was just 3 .. I mentioned it was more (closer to 5). Sachin averages 38 ... which is much better than Lakhan.

I am not setting a cutoff ... am just showing stats that SG was indeed the worse indian mo bat in this time. Worse than VVS ... worse than Tendulkar, Worse than Dravid etc etc .

You (Ganguly supporters.. fans )  keep bringing up other people's performance to justify SG's existance in the team and I was just showing that SG was worse even by those standards. i dont have to set a limit or cutoff. An average below 30 for a long period is usually considered unacceptable. Even VVS should be on notice as 32 isnt much better and thats what is happening.

I like VVS but I couldn't resist making a comment because the difference between their averages is so small, esp. taking into account the fact that one is a captain -- and hence, I do not feel your argument holds water. Anyway, my main point is that he should be given more than one test to prove his comeback form -- and one test where he did very well, however, you want to twist it!
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justforkix

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Re: Father faces the Devil's Alternative as BCCI politics rules the roost
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2006, 06:03:32 AM »

2 years is too small a time? Do you want a decade? You mean to say 4 innings is too small ... ok BUT in conjunction with his 2 years AND fielding it is enough.

Ok lets do the numbers (2 years starting Feb 1 2004 no minnows)

SRT batting average 38  2 hundreds
SG  batting average 27.25 0 hundreds
VVS batting average 31.68 1 hundred

Cover Point :

First of all. I admit that SRT is not exactly in the boat. That was written is haste and not exactly looking at exact numbers. His average is low but still acceptable. The pecking order for among middle order bats were SG, VVS, SRT, RD. That much, both you and me agree (I hope). Also, instead of looking at the calender time, let us look at how many test innings played by the players concerned. 2 years is quite misleading because it was a light year in terms of load, especially if you exclude the minnows, BD and Zim.

My point was SG got 4 chances to bat after the 1st test vs. SL in Chennai. So, I will take this test as the cut off point and look at all three - SRT, SG and VVS. In other words, their performance from the 1st test (Multan) vs. pak in 2004 to 1st test 9Chennai) vs. SL in 2005, both test included. Basically dividing your stats into 2 parts, Before Kotla and after Kotla.

Multan - Kotla

SRT batting average 40.47 (17 innings) 4 50s, 1 100s
SG  batting average  23.83 (12 innings) 1 50s, 0 100s
VVS batting average 25.83 (19 innings) 4 50s, 0 100s

Kotla - Karachi

SRT batting average 32.86 (7 innings), 0 50s, 1 100s
SG  batting average  37.50 (4 innings)  0 50s, 0 100s   
VVS batting average 46.71 (7 innings)  2 50s, 1 100s

Therefore my point is VVS and SG have performed similarly from Karachi to Kotla. But VVS played 19 innings in that period as opposed to 12 by SG. Therefore, a more prolonged slump. So, it all there was any consistency, either VVS should have been axed during that prolonged slump or SG should have been given at least a few more innings. Neither has happened. Also, an interesting observation is that, if you add up all innings of SG, his average is 27.25 (your number) in 16 innings, slightly more than VVS in 19 innings.

That said, writing should have been on the wall for both SG and VVS in lieu of their poor perfoemances. The only point of my initial post was that there should be consistency in selecting or dropping players.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2006, 06:45:14 AM by justforkix »
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